Advent Talk
General Category => General Discussions => Topic started by: imagrandpa on January 31, 2008, 10:22:35 PM
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Excuse me for barging in, but in what way was Folkenberg
dealth with too harshly?
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Excuse me for barging in, but in what way was Folkenberg
dealth with too harshly?
I don't believe he was.
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I think that probably David Dennis was treated too hashly.
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Who is David Dennis?
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Who is David Dennis?
Who is David Dennis and what is his connection with Folkenberg/3abn?
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Did you notice the emphasis of the "partnership" between Share Him, Amazing Facts, 3ABN and Quiet Hour?
The concept of Transcending the General Conference and creating a world ministry platform is still alive and well. I am sure that ASI and the ASI Mission Board, Inc
are silent partners, but heavilly involved in putting humpty dumpty back together again.
The partnership is still heavilly reliant upon the participation of 3ABN so you can bet they will redouble efforts to clean up the IRS issues and keep this thing going.
Gailon Arthur Joy
Are the IRS issues a potentially serious problem still for 3ABN?
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I guess maybe I have been under a rock for a while. Could someone please tell me, respectfully of course, what the issue was with Elder Folkenberg and what he did that necessitated him being "dealt with"? Is it somehow related to the issues we are seeing today with 3ABN?
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I am assuming that the dealing harshly part refers to when he was GC president and left under a cloud, which would be past history except that now he works with ShareHim, is seen frequently on 3ABN promoting his ministry of missions, and DS is suppoed to be doing a mission project for his ministry.
And Gailon mentioned 3ABN Live's promotion of the partnership of ShareHim, Amazing Facts, 3ABN, and Quiet Hour, giving his opinion that this was having the underlying support of ASI in the form of the ASI Mission Board.
He believes that ASI and these other entities would like to bypass the organized church, i.e. the General Conference, to form a world wide ministry platform.
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But what was the cloud he left under? What did he do? Or not do?
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Somebody take this on. How soon we all forget.
Thanks for asking Snoopy. I just don't have enough time for that one!
It is hard sometimes to deal with those very large $ numbers and commas all in one sequence in a total column.
Does Davenport ring any bells?
He does not work with Share Him. He is Share Him! He was on 3ABN showing how he does it all from his house with massive storage on his computers. A home business.
Artiste: "He believes that ASI and these other entities would like to bypass the organized church, i.e. the General Conference, to form a world wide ministry platform."
Let me rephrase this.
Fran: I believe that ASI and these other entities HAVE ALLREADY bypassed the organized church, i.e. the General Conference, to form a world wide ministry platform."
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Somebody take this on. How soon we all forget.
Thanks for asking Snoopy. I just don't have enough time for that one!
It is hard sometimes to deal with those very large $ numbers and commas all in one sequence in a total column.
Does Davenport ring any bells?
He does not work with Share Him. He is Share Him! He was on 3ABN showing how he does it all from his house with massive storage on his computers. A home business.
Artiste: "He believes that ASI and these other entities would like to bypass the organized church, i.e. the General Conference, to form a world wide ministry platform."
Let me rephrase this.
Fran: I believe that ASI and these other entities HAVE ALLREADY bypassed the organized church, i.e. the General Conference, to form a world wide ministry platform."
So, again, do we need an ASI forum?
Snoopy, Elder Folkenberg resigned from his position of GC president in 1999 when it came to light that he and some associates were heavily involved in questionable financial misdealings with church money.
The reference to David Dennis in another thread is regarding the lawsuite he had against Folkenberg for being forced out of his position of auditor which he had for 18 years. He withdrew it in 2001 for lack of funds...I really don't know very much about the whole thing.
That's all I knew about the Elder Folkenberg problem at the time since the whole thing was rather uninteresting to me--it was obvious the organized church had problems of various sorts.
Problems or not, I still don't think it is appropriate for ASI to want to control the church.
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But what was the cloud he left under? What did he do? Or not do?
As I recall, it was discovered that Folkenberg, president of the GC, had some financial dealings with a Catholic businessman. Whatever happened, Folkenberg got in debt with this businessman, and then he worked out a deal with him to get out of debt. This deal meant that all GC (perhaps more SDA?) phone lines would run through the telephone company of this Catholic businessman. He would in return give SDA a good discount on phone calls - and write off Folkenberg's debt to him.
Since this seemed quite profitable to the SDA church, Folkenberg apparently signed this contract as he was certain the GC board would accept it - which they didn't. Too many board members voted against it and felt Folkenberg had not acted as an honest GC president. So he had to leave his job and Jan Paulsen was made the acting GC president.
I understand the Carolina Conference had mercy on Folkenberg and extended his ministerial license. Since then he has used his job there to promote his Global Evangelism project, using his previous good contacts to collect private funds for this project. So it may seem like Folkenberg is running an Independent Ministry using the local conference as an umbrella making it look like there is a connection to the official SDA Church.
To all appearances Folkenberg has used this platform together with his great ability of collecting funds from private businessmen to regain popularity and thereby power within the church.
As I stated in a previous post, it seemed like the present GC administration felt that he was regaining too much power for comfort. Some feared he was using this power to regain his control over the GC and possibly become president again.
In order to curb Folkenberg's growing power through his evangelism program the GC administration called Mark Finlay from California to be a new vice president for evangelism, so that he could divert the interest in evangelism away from Folkenberg.
Mark F was using 3ABN, and he once promised Danny Shelton he would be the main speaker at every 3ABN Camp Meeting. I think the last time he spoke at a 3ABN Camp Meeting was in 2004. This was when Linda was discarded, and it seems like Danny was certain Mark F would endorse his liquidation on his wife. On the contrary, I think Mark F. discovered that Linda was innocent of Danny's accusations. So, as far as I know, he has never since then been back as the main speaker at any 3ABN Camp Meeting.
About this time Mark F. becomes the chairman of the board of HOPE TV - the competitor of 3ABN, and the official Church TV channel. And MF has always been with the SDA Church.
While Folkenberg was GC president he was trying to get 3ABN under the wings of the Church, but did not succeed. After he was ousted as the GC president he suddenly becomes almost a bedfellow of Danny Shelton since both of them are running Independent Ministries, and both are, to possibly quite some extent, gaining their financial backing from the same source, which might be trying with financial means to create an alternative mission society, independent of the official Seventh-day Adventist Church, as has been indicated on this forum.
This is the general picture as I have observed it. There may be details I have seen in subdued or colored light, so I'd be grateful for any valuable corrections you may have access to.
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But what was the cloud he left under? What did he do? Or not do?
As I recall, it was discovered that Folkenberg, president of the GC, had some financial dealings with a Catholic businessman. Whatever happened, Folkenberg got in debt with this businessman, and then he worked out a deal with him to get out of debt. This deal meant that all GC (perhaps more SDA?) phone lines would run through the telephone company of this Catholic businessman. He would in return give SDA a good discount on phone calls - and write off Folkenberg's debt to him.
Since this seemed quite profitable to the SDA church, Folkenberg apparently signed this contract as he was certain the GC board would accept it - which they didn't. Too many board members voted against it and felt Folkenberg had not acted as an honest GC president. So he had to leave his job and Jan Paulsen was made the acting GC president.
I understand the Carolina Conference had mercy on Folkenberg and extended his ministerial license. Since then he has used his job there to promote his Global Evangelism project, using his previous good contacts to collect private funds for this project. So it may seem like Folkenberg is running an Independent Ministry using the local conference as an umbrella making it look like there is a connection to the official SDA Church.
To all appearances Folkenberg has used this platform together with his great ability of collecting funds from private businessmen to regain popularity and thereby power within the church.
As I stated in a previous post, it seemed like the present GC administration felt that he was regaining too much power for comfort. Some feared he was using this power to regain his control over the GC and possibly become president again.
In order to curb Folkenberg's growing power through his evangelism program the GC administration called Mark Finlay from California to be a new vice president for evangelism, so that he could divert the interest in evangelism away from Folkenberg.
Mark F was using 3ABN, and he once promised Danny Shelton he would be the main speaker at every 3ABN Camp Meeting. I think the last time he spoke at a 3ABN Camp Meeting was in 2004. This was when Linda was discarded, and it seems like Danny was certain Mark F would endorse his liquidation on his wife. On the contrary, I think Mark F. discovered that Linda was innocent of Danny's accusations. So, as far as I know, he has never since then been back as the main speaker at any 3ABN Camp Meeting.
About this time Mark F. becomes the chairman of the board of HOPE TV - the competitor of 3ABN, and the official Church TV channel. And MF has always been with the SDA Church.
While Folkenberg was GC president he was trying to get 3ABN under the wings of the Church, but did not succeed. After he was ousted as the GC president he suddenly becomes almost a bedfellow of Danny Shelton since both of them are running Independent Ministries, and both are, to possibly quite some extent, gaining their financial backing from the same source, which might be trying with financial means to create an alternative mission society, independent of the official Seventh-day Adventist Church, as has been indicated on this forum.
This is the general picture as I have observed it. There may be details I have seen in subdued or colored light, so I'd be grateful for any valuable corrections you may have access to.
Johann, thanks for explanations from someone who actually knows something about it!
And again the mention of an alternate mission entity, independent of the church.
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I guess maybe I have been under a rock for a while. Could someone please tell me, respectfully of course, what the issue was with Elder Folkenberg and what he did that necessitated him being "dealt with"? Is it somehow related to the issues we are seeing today with 3ABN?
[Edited and snipped content. Please refer to Johann's post above because he has actual information from Bob's time at the GC. Somehow I didn't see that before posting. I was not aware of the long-distance deal, only the kind of stuff that's documented in the AToday article. I know how things can be "spun," and I prefer to put the best, rather than the worst interpretation on the allegations.]
Johann's account rings true to the kind of thing I can imagine Bob Folkenberg doing, based upon my impression of him. [Edited: A question in connection with the allegations on AToday would be this: Does Bob Folkenberg lead a lavish lifestyle as the result of his "self-dealing." Or is it possible that he attempted to make money for the work of the church?]
Bob Folkenberg has an entrepreneurial bent. He's a go-getter. And he applies these qualities to the work of the church. When he was president of the Inter-American Division, that division started growing phenomenally, even though the word had been that it was a "difficult" place because of Roman Catholic control.
When Bob Folkenberg became GC president, he took that same spirit to that office. He broke new ground and accomplished more in his short stint than others did in a much longer stint. He's not a diplomat but will call things as he sees them. He will step on toes if those toes are in the way of what he sees needs to be done. He is no respecter of persons and will listen to a lay person as easily as to a division secretary if he sees that lay person as a thinking and committed individual.
Clearly Bob Folkenberg overstepped his authority in a deal that he thought would greatly profit the church as well as himself.
Because this resulted in a cloud hanging over his head, and he resigned, rather than having that cloud attached to the highest officer of the Adventist church.
I have met the man on several occasions and have observed him in action in various public presentations, including ShareHim training. He has a passion for evangelism, and he is a man of action. Such men tend to make enemies even when they don't do anything wrong. But such men often make more mistakes than their more careful (think "do-little") compatriots. They make more mistakes because they attempt more, and they get more done -- as Bob did during his short time in office.
I believe Bob Folkenberg to be an honest man, and what has bothered me is that the innuendos about him have left the impression that he was involved with shady dealings for his own benefit. [Edited: By what Johann shares, Bob's deal while in office was questionable at best. Does that mean that he is basically dishonest? Or is it a question of bad judgment and overstepping authority?]
I only know Bob Folkenberg from a few personal brushes with him, but I do know people who think highly of him. I don't know Gailon Joy at all, except from public postings about him and by him. But I sense that Gailon and Bob have a great deal in common in their personalities and characters.
I kind of stepped out on a limb with this post because I have not seen the evidence Gailon says he has seen. However, I am very much interested in his thoughts on the matter -- whether my interpretation of what happened is a possible one, rather than the more negative one that implies that Bob Folkenberg is a man not to be trusted. (I recall that some like to paint Gailon that way too, and I believe they are wrong as well.)
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I also met Bob Folkenberg on a few occasions with very positive impressions. I discovered personally that when he encountered a problem he dealt with it immediately, or had one of his wealthy friends take care of it. What I wrote above was based on information that was gained from headquarters at the time to explain why Bob Folkenberg had to to resign.
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There is some information on the web regarding Folkenberg for anyone who wants to read it.
One of the better published articles can be found at AToday.
http://www.atoday.com/magazine/2002/03/folkenberg-resigns
Another newspaper account is found at:
http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/082298/fea_advent.shtml
Folkenberg's relationship to the Dennis case mentioned elsewhere is noted here:
http://www.advmca.org/case/dennis.htm
There is a brief mention of the resignation in the following Google Book excerpt at page 344. I do not own the book so do not know if there is more discussion regarding Folkenberg and his nefarious activities while GC president.
http://books.google.com/books?id=ZecGePod4fgC&pg=PA344&lpg=PA344&dq=robert+folkenberg+resigns&source=web&ots=3z5I3IMQNh&sig=JSPiCtVsZcAEedEIgqabStEZqW8#PPP1,M1
Inga and others. My sources have told me stories of amazing self-dealing with only the tip of the iceberg ever being discussed publicly. Johann, I assume you are referring to the MLM deal regarding MCI long distance plans?
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While Folkenberg was GC president he was trying to get 3ABN under the wings of the Church, but did not succeed. After he was ousted as the GC president he suddenly becomes almost a bedfellow of Danny Shelton since both of them are running Independent Ministries, and both are, to possibly quite some extent, gaining their financial backing from the same source ...
I had been wondering about the source of the funding for the ShareHim ministry. Anyone who signs up for doing evengelism through ShareHim.org gets a free CD with the sermons, PowerPoint files, etc. While this is not a huge expense, it does cost money, especially taking mail expenses into account. And Bob Folkenberg travels extensively in order to train participants, see how the foreign campaings are going, etc. I had my doubts that the Carolina Conference would underwrite it all.
On the other hand, the program seems to be run on the proverbial "shoe string." When my husband asked Bob for a presentation specifically tailored to the East Indian audience, Bob personally sent him a CD because it wasn't yet available publically. (He signed the form at the post office.) And his wife Anita is also involved, apparently doing the office work. There's no evidence of a paid "staff."
In thinking about the financing (jogged by the postings here), I recalled Bob talking about a certain manufacturer of garbage trucks and how God had blessed him and how he was underwriting so much evangelism around the world. (Bob's brother was at the same meeting, but I don't remember whether Garwin was too. It's been years ago -- possibly before he was even GC president.)
So it does seem likely that GM is funding the ShareHim program.
No question about it -- I believe the ShareHim evangelism is a good program. And from hearing Bob promote the ShareHim program, I did not hear a hint of rivalry with the GC or any hint that the church wasn't doing its job. All I got out of it was that God still works powerfully today through anyone that is willing to be used. (He tells amazing stories of the most unlikely "evangelists" being used by God.)
I would love to see the ShareHim program more closely connected with the GC. I wonder what is preventing that? Is it people already in elected offices who are afraid they will be overshadowed by Bob Folkenberg? Or are the principals in ShareHim not willing? (I would hope it is neither.)
We all need to trust God more and be more willing to be used by Him -- whether or not we make mistakes and whether or not we have made big mistakes in the past.
David sinned greatly, but his repentance was thorough, and I believe he was a man after God''s own heart when he repented. God can do more through men of action who are willing to risk much than through the careful, conservative ones who are unwilling to step out of their comfort zone.
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As you state, ImaAnt, only the tip of the iceberg was discussed publicly. Various sources exposed different sides of what really happened. All agree that Bob Folkenberg was replaced by another president, and we know that he is elected to serve until 2010.
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There is good news and bad news about the "New" 3ABN.
The good news is that Danny is on the big screen a lot less!
However, the awful news is that he is still there.
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The David Dennis story would probably merit a new thread.
In summary, he was an auditor at the GC.... the church's top auditor.
From what I have read (and now believe), he exposed many financial
misdealings that Folkenberg was involved in. I would think it would be
the job of an auditor in his position to do these things.
Long and short of story --- Folkenberg retailiated against him for
doing his job and cost the man his livelihood.
Dennis sued the church, I believe for slander or wrongful termination.
The church did NOT want the case to proceed to trial and as a result
spent many years of legal maneuvering to keep 12 jurors from hearing
the evidence and then rendering a judgment.
The church spent several millions of dollars of (tithe money) to keep
it out of the courts.
Bottom line... they wore Dennis down and he ran out of money.
I personally knew people that worked with David Dennis and they
all spoke very highly of him.
The problem in our church is that a man like Folkenberg has too much
power. Will his influence and power (to give people jobs and take
them away), he can pretty much do what he wants.
I do not remember all of the details of what the accusations were
against Folkengerg --- but it was NOT just a bunch of smoke
and mirrors..
The shame of it all is how David Dennis was treated and thrown
out like a dirty rag. Although many people in the church knew
and were very aware of the facts.... there were just not enough
of them to make a differnce. When the new president came in
after Folkenberg -- he said he would appoint a "blue ribbon
committee" to seek out the truth and right some wrongs.
Well, as it usually happens in our church... it never happened.
He figured out that there wasn't enough people pushing for
this and he could just pretend the sordid event never happened.
Sortof like Gilley now proclaiming to want to look to the future
now and forget the past about what was done to Linda.
Our church is very competent when it comes to damamge
control and keeping things away from the members. The
church has been moving in the wrong direction for a number
of years... and it makes me sad. I did not join a cult 50
years ago... but this is exactly what it's characteristics are.
It's all about control, control, control.
It starts with the local church and moves right on up !
Remember when the pastor was simply an advisor to
"nominating committees"? Not now... now they are
EXPECTED to be the chairman - rather than an observor
or consultant. This was done in 2000 and the ch.
manual was changed to facilitate this.
I did not join a cult.
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Wow imagrandpa - that is very interesting. Thank you for your insightful post. It sounds like you have some firsthand information regarding Elder Folkenberg and the GC Internal Audit Department. I noticed you made reference to some things you have read. I am curious - is it anything you could post here or provide a link to? I would be very interested to see it. It surely does sound like it might warrant its own thread.
Regarding Pastor Gilley, my heart really goes out to him. I'd be willing to bet he was not given the entire picture of 3ABN's current situation when he was asked to take over as President. I know it may sound like he wants to forget the past, but it is possible that is just how it appears to the viewing public while he is reeling from what has hit him since he arrived in T'ville. I know I often have a tendency to make an opinion without having the entire story, so I am trying to reserve judgment in this area. I think he deserves some more time, but maybe that's just me.
Snoopy
The David Dennis story would probably merit a new thread.
In summary, he was an auditor at the GC.... the church's top auditor.
From what I have read (and now believe), he exposed many financial
misdealings that Folkenberg was involved in. I would think it would be
the job of an auditor in his position to do these things.
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According to what Mr. Appletree has just posted on BSDA, Danny Shelton still seems to be in full control at 3ABN. And there seems no likelihood for any kind of compromise.
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Poor Mr. Appletree. He is so misled. His mis-information is contrary to what I hear is going on in the 3ABN boardroom (wherever that might be) and is exactly what I was referring to with regard to giving Elder Gilley a chance. What if it comes down to a war between Mr. Shelton and Elder Gilley? We need to pray fervently for Elder Gilley and the wisdom he will need to see through the smoke and clean the house. And let's not forget...it will be really difficult for Mr. Shelton to maintain control of 3ABN and battle the IRS at the same time.
Snoopy
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The David Dennis affair goes back beyond 3 years ago.
I will try and find some links if they are still alive and post them
here.
Let me be clear. I have no desire to chop off Folkenberg's
legs right now. It's just that I had had some hope that the
"brethren" would eventually do the right thing and clear a
good man's name. All the man (David D) wanted was to be
able to tell his story to 12 honest men and women and then
let the church tell their side - and let them decide who was
right and wrong.
I believe strongly that Folkenberg with his connections and
power simply railroaded the man.
Possibly get the people who run this board create a new thread
for this subject????
As far as Gilley goes.... I will pray for him. I doubt he was stupid
enough to not be pretty aware of what he was getting in to.
My sources (2 first hand) tell me that he was pretty much
"begged" to take the job. I know Gilley, but only indirectly
and sure he probably knows me when he sees me. I believe
he is the best man for the job (from what I know abt him). He
has charisma, ability to lead and primarily a proven ability to
raise money.... and this is on eof 3abn's primary problems.
Rather than judge the man, I prefer to see what he does and
how and if he will right some wrongs. He says he simply wants
to look forward.... this is not a particularly good omen.
The path of least resistance is not always the best way to
go when trying to straighten out a mess.
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]http://www.advmca.org/articles/Ex[url] (http://www.advmca.org/articles/Ex[url)change%20with%20GC.htm[/url]
Not sure if I have done this correctly or not, but the link to some
information re: the David Dennis affair is at the above link.
The site is : Members For Church Accountability
The men who were associated with the site are desirious of
needed change in the organization, and governance of our
church. They did not indulge in anything caustic or detrimental.
Not a forum.... but a good source of information.
I will try and find other areas for information.
One could just pick up the phone and call the GC.
Ask to talk to someone that knows about what
happened to David Dennis.
I once called and got hold of an atty. -- he was obviously
schooled on what to say and had the drill down pat.
I would like to know how much money the chuirch spent
on lawyers over 4 years to keep it out of court. I had
heard it ran into the millions. This was not denied by
the person I talked to.
What happened back then was in my mind more serious
than the Danny/Linda events at 3abn -- This was my
Church !
There were also some articles published in -- I think -
Spectrum magazine.
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It seems to me that there are some very strong parallels between the Shelton scandal and the Dennis scandal.
In each case, a powerful person or group of persons mistreated one without the power. And in each case, an innocent person was apparently slandered and sacrificed "for the greater good" (in the view of those perpetrating the mistreatment).
I hate to think that Bob Folkenberg played the same part as Danny Shelton has been playing, but maybe he did, and I'm just as wrong in my impression of Bob Folkenberg as the defenders of Danny Shelton are today.
From what I have read, I believe David Dennis to be an honest man who was shamefully mistreated.
Is it not, in the end, a lack of faith that leads people in positions of power to use the ways of the devil to do the work of the Lord?
How the Lord must weep!
I suppose a more practical question for us is whether we -- that is you and I -- have enough faith to allow all our actions to be "as transparent as sunlight" and trust the consequences to God.
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It is my opinion that starting a thread or section on the David Dennis affair would not belong in the 3ABN forum here.
There are probably various Seventh-day Adventist church problems or scandals out there that could be commented on or developed into discussion areas.
AdventTalk has sections for respectful discussion of theology, Sabbath School lesson study, etc. I don't see a section for the purpose of bringing to the forefront problems and scandals of our church.
Of course the Seventh-day Aventist church is not perfect, but I haven't seen any evidence that AdventTalk is a site that intends to highlight the imperfections of the church.
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The David Dennis story would probably merit a new thread.
In summary, he was an auditor at the GC.... the church's top auditor.
From what I have read (and now believe), he exposed many financial
misdealings that Folkenberg was involved in. I would think it would be
the job of an auditor in his position to do these things.
Long and short of story --- Folkenberg retailiated against him for
doing his job and cost the man his livelihood.
Dennis sued the church, I believe for slander or wrongful termination.
The church did NOT want the case to proceed to trial and as a result
spent many years of legal maneuvering to keep 12 jurors from hearing
the evidence and then rendering a judgment.
The church spent several millions of dollars of (tithe money) to keep
it out of the courts.
Bottom line... they wore Dennis down and he ran out of money.
I personally knew people that worked with David Dennis and they
all spoke very highly of him.
The problem in our church is that a man like Folkenberg has too much
power. Will his influence and power (to give people jobs and take
them away), he can pretty much do what he wants.
I do not remember all of the details of what the accusations were
against Folkengerg --- but it was NOT just a bunch of smoke
and mirrors..
The shame of it all is how David Dennis was treated and thrown
out like a dirty rag. Although many people in the church knew
and were very aware of the facts.... there were just not enough
of them to make a differnce. When the new president came in
after Folkenberg -- he said he would appoint a "blue ribbon
committee" to seek out the truth and right some wrongs.
Well, as it usually happens in our church... it never happened.
He figured out that there wasn't enough people pushing for
this and he could just pretend the sordid event never happened.
Sortof like Gilley now proclaiming to want to look to the future
now and forget the past about what was done to Linda.
Our church is very competent when it comes to damamge
control and keeping things away from the members. The
church has been moving in the wrong direction for a number
of years... and it makes me sad. I did not join a cult 50
years ago... but this is exactly what it's characteristics are.
It's all about control, control, control.
It starts with the local church and moves right on up !
Remember when the pastor was simply an advisor to
"nominating committees"? Not now... now they are
EXPECTED to be the chairman - rather than an observor
or consultant. This was done in 2000 and the ch.
manual was changed to facilitate this.
I did not join a cult.
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Imagrandpa,
Why did you repeat the same lengthy post today, verbatum, as you posted yesterday? The conclusion of which was "the church has been moving in the wrong direction for a number of years".
Isn't there a term for that?
It would seem to me to be some type of spam.
I understand you have a beef with the actions of the Seventh-day Adventist church...
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Sorry, no spam intended.
I just made a mistake.
javascript:void(0);
Smiley
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Thank you for the explanation, Imagrandpa.
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I agree, imagrandpa. The Dennis story does warrant its own thread.
I have been studying into the Dennis / Folkenberg era of the SDA church, and I am convinced that Dennis was attacked, thrown out and defamed for being too effective as a whistleblower, when it was Folkenberg with the shady business dealings. When the brethren finally figured it out, Folkenberg was removed as president of the world church but he is still in charge of "Share Him"! Unbelievable!!
Dennis wrote a book about his story called Fatal Accounts. It is an eye-opening read, to say the least. The scariest part of his story, in my opinion, is that his legal case INCLUDING THE DEFAMATION CHARGE ultimately found protection under the First Amendment Religion Clauses.
The David Dennis story would probably merit a new thread.
In summary, he was an auditor at the GC.... the church's top auditor.
From what I have read (and now believe), he exposed many financial
misdealings that Folkenberg was involved in. I would think it would be
the job of an auditor in his position to do these things.
Long and short of story --- Folkenberg retailiated against him for
doing his job and cost the man his livelihood.
Dennis sued the church, I believe for slander or wrongful termination.
The church did NOT want the case to proceed to trial and as a result
spent many years of legal maneuvering to keep 12 jurors from hearing
the evidence and then rendering a judgment.
The church spent several millions of dollars of (tithe money) to keep
it out of the courts.
Bottom line... they wore Dennis down and he ran out of money.
I personally knew people that worked with David Dennis and they
all spoke very highly of him.
The problem in our church is that a man like Folkenberg has too much
power. Will his influence and power (to give people jobs and take
them away), he can pretty much do what he wants.
I do not remember all of the details of what the accusations were
against Folkengerg --- but it was NOT just a bunch of smoke
and mirrors..
The shame of it all is how David Dennis was treated and thrown
out like a dirty rag. Although many people in the church knew
and were very aware of the facts.... there were just not enough
of them to make a differnce. When the new president came in
after Folkenberg -- he said he would appoint a "blue ribbon
committee" to seek out the truth and right some wrongs.
Well, as it usually happens in our church... it never happened.
He figured out that there wasn't enough people pushing for
this and he could just pretend the sordid event never happened.
Sortof like Gilley now proclaiming to want to look to the future
now and forget the past about what was done to Linda.
Our church is very competent when it comes to damamge
control and keeping things away from the members. The
church has been moving in the wrong direction for a number
of years... and it makes me sad. I did not join a cult 50
years ago... but this is exactly what it's characteristics are.
It's all about control, control, control.
It starts with the local church and moves right on up !
Remember when the pastor was simply an advisor to
"nominating committees"? Not now... now they are
EXPECTED to be the chairman - rather than an observor
or consultant. This was done in 2000 and the ch.
manual was changed to facilitate this.
I did not join a cult.
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Was he a whistle-blower, or?
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David Dennis was head auditor for the SDA church until Folkenberg got him thrown out.
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Whether the church was right or wrong I don't know but I do have a problem with a member suing the church or a fellow member of the church. According to the Bible and EGW we are to take a loss rather than drag the church or a fellow member in front of a court of law.
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Whether the church was right or wrong I don't know but I do have a problem with a member suing the church or a fellow member of the church. According to the Bible and EGW we are to take a loss rather than drag the church or a fellow member in front of a court of law.
I have a problem with the church spending over $6 million of SACRED DOLLARS just to keep Dennis from being able to litigate his claim. I also think that Mrs. White would be horrified at the way the church treated Dennis in the first place. The church is not above the law, in spite of how much it might think it is. I think God gave us a mind and He expects us to use it and not just blindly accept what the church does just because it is "the church". Wasn't it also Mrs. White who said that the church's main problems in the last days would come from within...??