Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: Artiste on February 24, 2012, 01:26:17 PM
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After various allegations and defenses put forth by the 3ABN Defenders, including but not limited to the following:
1) Tommy Shelton is innocent of any charges.
2) Bob Pickle and Gailon Joy have been the source of any troubles that Tommy Shelton, Danny Shelton, or 3ABN have had.
3) Linda caused it all.
4) Tommy Shelton has had some problems in the far distant past, but he reformed and everything is OK now.
5) Tommy Shelton, being the wonderful person that he is, will now be giving Bible studies to the other prisoners while suffering patiently through his unwarranted trials, the way God would want him to.
We now are informed that the former 3ABN "Kid's Time" pianist, brother of Danny Shelton and homosexual pedophile Tommy Shelton will be spending some well deserved time in prison.
What does 3ABN have to say about this?
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From a website that defends 3ABN and the Shelton family, January 19, 2012:
"It is good that this innocent man could do the Alford plea since his health is so precarious. It is too bad he must spend a few weeks in jail but the Lord will sustain him and help him...
...I can hardly wait until Tommy is freed from jail This Alford plea is a good thing because Tommy is innocent of hurting any children...
...He knows that God had a reason for allowing this and has determined to work through the fear and depression of being incarcerated and to let himself be used of God."
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News article is now on Washington Post, but cannott post from my phone. Could someone else?
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/former-pastor-sentenced-after-alford-plea-on-molestation-allegations/2012/02/24/gIQAf9VfYR_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/former-pastor-sentenced-after-alford-plea-on-molestation-allegations/2012/02/24/gIQAf9VfYR_story.html)
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Former pastor sentenced after Alford plea on molestation allegations
By Justin Jouvenal, Friday, February 24, 5:11 PM
The 30-year-old glared down from the witness stand at the former pastor accused of molesting him as a boy and demanded one thing: “I just want you to say you’re sorry — that’s it.”
The man he addressed, Tommy R. Shelton Jr., sat less than 10 feet away in a Fairfax County courtroom. Shelton, 66, stared past him in stony silence.
“You can pretend you didn’t do this, but you know you did,” said the man in the witness stand Friday. “Look at me.” And then, finally, their gazes met.
Soon after, Fairfax County Circuit Court Judge Brett A. Kassabian sentenced Shelton to six years in prison on charges stemming from allegations of molestation from the mid-’90s, when Shelton was leader of the Community Church of God in Dunn Loring.
At the time, Shelton was giving the man, then a high school freshman, piano lessons and counseling him after the deaths of his parents a number of years earlier. The man testified in May 2010 that Shelton kissed him, fondled him and performed oral sex on him. He said two assaults occurred in the church.
“He sought me out and told me he could be a counselor, a father figure,” the man testified Friday, choking back tears. “The things that were done just didn’t feel right.”
The Washington Post generally does not name victims of alleged sexual abuse.
The man was one of two to accuse Shelton of molestation in 2008.
Under a deal reached with Deputy Commonwealth’s Attorney Katherine E. Stott, Shelton agreed to enter an Alford plea on four charges in the 30-year-old’s case. Charges based on allegations brought by the second man were dropped.
In an Alford plea, a defendant does not admit guilt but recognizes that prosecutors have enough evidence to obtain a conviction.
Shelton nevertheless declared his innocence Friday before Kassabian sentenced him. “I’m sorry for any suffering he has received,” he said. “However, I still stick with my plea of not guilty.”
Defense attorneys argued Shelton should serve no time in jail because he is in poor health, had no prior criminal record and had been a loving husband and father for 40 years. Kassabian rejected that.
“The betrayal of your position of authority occurred on many levels,” Kassabian told Shelton.
The case had many twists and turns. In July 2010, Shelton reached an agreement with prosecutors to plead guilty to two felony counts of taking indecent liberties with a child under his supervision. A judge later rejected that deal because it did not put the pastor behind bars.
Stott said she agreed to the deal because the case was difficult: There was no forensic evidence or other witnesses, and Shelton was respected.
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Well, the system of justice, as it works in the United States, has worked. Probably some people on both sides will be unhappy with the sentence. Some will likely wish that the sentence had been longer. Others will wish that it had been shorter.
Personally I was conflicted as to what the sentence might be. But, I would not have been surprised at a longer sentence.
To those who might have wished for a longer sentence, I say:
1) Six years for a man of his age is not a picnic.
2) Conviction of a felony is not something is light. It has its consequences.
3) Registration as a sex offender is a heavy burden to carry.
4) Life after release from prison will be different from what it is now.
As I said: Whether imperfectly or not, the system has worked and justice has been served. TS will carry the marks of this with him for the rest of his life.
My hope for now is that healing can take place in the lives of those who have been adversely touched by him.
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Former pastor sentenced after Alford plea on molestation allegations
By Justin Jouvenal, Friday, February 24, 5:11 PM
The 30-year-old glared down from the witness stand at the former pastor accused of molesting him as a boy and demanded one thing: “I just want you to say you’re sorry — that’s it.”
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Shelton nevertheless declared his innocence Friday before Kassabian sentenced him. “I’m sorry for any suffering he has received,” he said. “However, I still stick with my plea of not guilty.”
According to this article, Tommy Shelton would not admit guilt, therefore he could not apologize to his victim.
Were the 3ABN Defenders right in claiming his innocence, or did Tommy Shelton become so hardened and depraved that he could look at his victim, who was in tears in court, and continue deny any guilt?
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This is sweet justice. I do hope now that the civil suit proves that Danny Shelton and the 3ABN board actively sought to cover up and shield this child rapist from the authorities. That includes Walt Thompson, Molly Steenson, Wintley Phipps and John Lomacang.
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Were the 3ABN Defenders right in claiming his innocence, or did Tommy Shelton become so hardened and depraved that he could look at his victim, who was in tears in court, and continue deny any guilt?
My impression, which is not based upon objective evidence, is that TS truely believes that he is not guilty of the charges made against him. He is in denial. How could that be? From the standpoint of psychology, it happens.
But, what do we know? We know two items of information:
1) By taking an Alford Plea, TS admits that the evidence against him is such that he would probably be convicted in a trial. NOTE: TS has acknowledged he would be convicted by legally admissable evidence. That is a major admission even though he can continue to claim that he is not guilty.
2) In an Alford Plea the judge is required to consider the weight of the evidence as part of the factors that determine the sentence. Yes, the judge may have considered the plea of the attornies who represneted TS--no other criminal background, health, otherwise a good citizen, etc. The judge probably did consider those factors along with the amount of the legally admissable evidence. In considering the total picture, the judge decided to sentence TS to six years. That tells me that the judge believed that the amount of the evidence was enough to have convicted in a criminal trial and to have warrented a major prison sentence.
At this point, a major question is: How long will TS serve before he is released on parole? The answer to that question will be based upon Virginia law. I do not know what Virginia law says on this point. I do know that is some States, TS would be required to serve a minimumn of 3 - 4 years before becomming eligible for consideration for parole. Again, Virginia may have a different requirement.
However, it is very clear and I have previously cited the Virginia case law to back my statement up: Under Virginia law, the Parole Board may consider whether or not TS has admitted his guilt. Therefore, it is possible that if TS consinues to deny his guilt, he will not be given parole and potentially he could serve his full sentence. No one can know what will happen.
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This is sweet justice. I do hope now that the civil suit proves that Danny Shelton and the 3ABN board actively sought to cover up and shield this child rapist from the authorities. That includes Walt Thompson, Molly Steenson, Wintley Phipps and John Lomacang.
Did John Lomacang know anything about Tommy prior to our conversation, I think on September 1, 2006? He seemed to honestly not know anything about Dryden's 2003 letter. That concerned me, since he is the pastor there and they do have a church school on 3ABN's premises. To keep the pastor in the dark about a known pedophile being in the vicinity is reprehensible.
John has never been a board member, as far as I know.
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If anyone of you have a connection with Tommy Shelton today, then wish him a Wonderful Sabbath from me. I still have fond memories of him playing at the Sabbath Service in the Nærum SDA church in Denmark. Then I rushed them from there to Malmö in Sweden back in 2003.
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This is sweet justice. I do hope now that the civil suit proves that Danny Shelton and the 3ABN board actively sought to cover up and shield this child rapist from the authorities. That includes Walt Thompson, Molly Steenson, Wintley Phipps and John Lomacang.
Did John Lomacang know anything about Tommy prior to our conversation, I think on September 1, 2006? He seemed to honestly not know anything about Dryden's 2003 letter. That concerned me, since he is the pastor there and they do have a church school on 3ABN's premises. To keep the pastor in the dark about a known pedophile being in the vicinity is reprehensible.
John has never been a board member, as far as I know.
A 3ABN employee told me about Tommy's proclivities while I was volunteering there in the spring of 20006. If the employees knew, you'd like to think the pastor knew.
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It sounds like the knowledge was widespread.
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If the knowledge was widespread, then there had to have been a cover-up.
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It has come as a shock to me to hear directly from members of the Shelton family that they hope Tommy doesn't ever leave prison alive. I hope that in time everyone will be able to move on with life and let it all go. However, if one looks at the the Rodrigo Borgia family, for example, they are remembered almost 500 years later.
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It has come as a shock to me to hear directly from members of the Shelton family that they hope Tommy doesn't ever leave prison alive. I hope that in time everyone will be able to move on with life and let it all go. However, if one looks at the the Rodrigo Borgia family, for example, they are remembered almost 500 years later.
Oh my. Are you serious? A family member said that? Good grief.
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Where are the Tommy defenders? Where are the folks who said "Tommy is looking at months not years?"
There has been complete silence.
I laughed at them when they said he was looking at months as I knew better.
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It has been known among family members and 3ABN employees for quite a while, quite a LONG while, that Tommy has a proclivity toward young boys.
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It has come as a shock to me to hear directly from members of the Shelton family that they hope Tommy doesn't ever leave prison alive. I hope that in time everyone will be able to move on with life and let it all go. However, if one looks at the the Rodrigo Borgia family, for example, they are remembered almost 500 years later.
We have also received a message from a member of the Shelton family stating that this seems to be an unfortunate exaggeration. Neither do I subscribe to that statement.
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Where are the Tommy defenders? Where are the folks who said "Tommy is looking at months not years?"
There has been complete silence.
No posts over there since Feb. 7.
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Where are the Tommy defenders? Where are the folks who said "Tommy is looking at months not years?"
There has been complete silence.
No posts over there since Feb. 7.
Don't you find it kind of funny, Bob, that they are all now being silent? Remember just lat month they was acting as though the Alfred Pleas was a blessing from God.
Now read that washington times article and see where tommy said, i am sorry for his suffering" Yet I still claim innocent."
What suffering was Tommy referring too if he was an innocent man? If he was innocent what would he be sorry for?
Now, th other site is silent because they was wrong and perhaps shocked that Tommy received years and not months.
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They've gone silent before. Probably sooner or later they'll get worked up again and start firing away with more nonsensical slander.
Here's a question for PrincessDi regarding a different sort of silence: Di, did you ever notice that sometimes BSDA would go silent? There would be all this banter back and forth, discussing various aspects of the scandal. And then something new would break, complete with compelling documentation. And then there would be this stark silence.
What was happening? Was everyone just kind of shocked at the new revelation, and it took a little bit to digest it before beginning the banter again? I noticed this kind of thing happening more than once.
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Bob, I am sure you're right. They will return. I would find it hard to respond as well if I defended a convicted sexual molestor who just received 6 years in prison as well.
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Other items that we should not forget:
1. In addition to DT and AW, it has been reported that Tommy Shelton molested a third child in Virginia.
2. There was a list started over at BlackSDA in a topic titled, "How Many Alleged Victims Of Tommy Shelton? 25+?, Rough Draft of List of Alleged Victims/Timeline." See link below:
http://www.3abnvjoy.com/blacksda-archive/index.php?showtopic=12656&st=0 (http://www.3abnvjoy.com/blacksda-archive/index.php?showtopic=12656&st=0)
Will other victims come forward? The list at the link only covered possible victims through 2000.
3. Could there be victims after 2000? When Tommy was arrested in March 2010, I remember one report saying that Tommy had been working or helping at a school in KY.
3. I have heard a saying that "Hurt People Hurt People." Tommy Shelton's father molested him. Tommy has told others that he did inappropriate things to his son. Thank God that with His help this cycle does not always continue. We must pray that those that Tommy Shelton hurt seek help, first from God, in stopping the cycle.
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At one point I was contacted by another one that happened after Tommy left Dun Loring.
As of recent one who claimed they was molested by him in the 50's.
I have been in contact with both of these men.
There is no way to actually know how many folks have been affected.
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Sorry folks I have been a bit busy so haven't been reading much lately I am praying that this is bringing some sense of peace and closure for you and the other victims. I am a bit confused, on the other thread it said that TS got 6 years, and I just read the post from "the other site" and they say he will spend a "few weeks" in prison? What is the exact sentence?
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Sorry folks I have been a bit busy so haven't been reading much lately I am praying that this is bringing some sense of peace and closure for you and the other victims. I am a bit confused, on the other thread it said that TS got 6 years, and I just read the post from "the other site" and they say he will spend a "few weeks" in prison? What is the exact sentence?
6 years
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Tommy Shelton's father molested him.
What?! I've never heard this before!
Maybe cousin Ellis, but not Tommy Sr.
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I don't think that is factual. I suppose I could be wrong, but I really don't think so.
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Tommy has told others that he did inappropriate things to his son. Thank God that with His help this cycle does not always continue. We must pray that those that Tommy Shelton hurt seek help, first from God, in stopping the cycle.
Tommy's son is a very honorable man who has no proclivity toward this sort of thing. Anyone who knows him knows that although his life has not been without bruises, he has come out above the issues. He is a man to be proud of.
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Tommy Shelton's father molested him.
What?! I've never heard this before!
Maybe cousin Ellis, but not Tommy Sr.
I have heard this before, In fact, I believe his defense attorney mentioned it to the prosecutor at one point.
One of the vitims who says he was molested in the 50's said Tommy use to babysit him and then molested him. I believe he said he was like 7 and Tommy was 16 or 17.
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Tommy has told others that he did inappropriate things to his son. Thank God that with His help this cycle does not always continue. We must pray that those that Tommy Shelton hurt seek help, first from God, in stopping the cycle.
Tommy's son is a very honorable man who has no proclivity toward this sort of thing. Anyone who knows him knows that although his life has not been without bruises, he has come out above the issues. He is a man to be proud of.
Praise God! With God all things are possible.
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....well that is considerably more than a few weeks........are they using prophetic time for their calculations?
6 years
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....well that is considerably more than a few weeks........are they using prophetic time for their calculations?
6 years
:ROFL: :ROFL: They had no idea. I laughed when they said "Tommy was looking at months and not years."
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Praise God! With God all things are possible.
That is what is important!
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Tommy Shelton's father molested him.
What?! I've never heard this before!
Maybe cousin Ellis, but not Tommy Sr.
I have heard this before, In fact, I believe his defense attorney mentioned it to the prosecutor at one point.
Tommy told me that he was molested by his father.
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Tommy has said that to others as well.
My question is when did this start? One man recently told me he believes he was one of Tommys first victims and that was in the 50's.
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....and that would fit the profile of a molester. They are more often than not victims themselves. Poor thing. That being said.....folks this is the 21st century and somebody int hat family knew where to get some help for TS. 3ABN does have a host of christian professional counselors, etc. running through there. There was loads of opportunity to get him the help he needed. Even if the tried with an interventio or two and he refused, Ts defeitniely should not have been allowed to work at 3ABN around children, well at 3ABN at all since children were there regularly.
Tommy told me that he was molested by his father.
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Six years is a hard punishment. But what else can our civil authorities do to stop this from running in families, if they refuse other help? And lots of misguided people are defending them?
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If it is true about the father, was Tommy the only one of the sons molested by him?
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Not much, Pastor Johann. Unfortunately, TS story is typical, especially if you add religious membership to the mix. As with this case the victim's families are often guilted into silence, which we see often comes back to bite them, because the abuser will use that fact to assist with their defense and claims of innocence........i.e., "Were there any charges filed, reports made to proper authorities".
Now, here is California, the laws for domestic abuse now do not required charges to be filed by the victim, and the state can "compel" the victim to testify. This came out abused women/men calling out the police and then changing their minds once they got there, or even bailing them out before th arrest reports can be written.......but there is no such law for sexual abuse to minors. Some time of prosecution still depends on the child reporting to parents/reporting agents, parents/reporting agents believing them, and then reporting to proper authorities.
Six years is a hard punishment. But what else can our civil authorities do to stop this from running in families, if they refuse other help? And lots of misguided people are defending them?
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If it is true about the father, was Tommy the only one of the sons molested by him?
Only a profound amount of the Holy Spirit would get most people to admit that
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Have been examining quite a few cases. Strange things happen to victims. They often live in complete denial, and therefore learn the subtle art of lying and making it convincing to others. Slowly as they learn this art and become adept at it they learn they can use their untruths to enrich themselves as they gather a group of believers around them.
Some experience a rebirth and a completely new life when they face themselves and admit their false stories and make confessions. I have met such people, and I have also met people who continue living in their deception which in some cases destroy them. This is pathetic, knowing the joy those achieve who turn their lives around.
I have dealt with people who may have lived in denial for 30-40 years, some times because their parents have refused to listen to them. It is also pathetic dealing with other people who refuse to believe the stories of victims until years later when they see the harm they have done.
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Just received a phone call from Deputy Common Wealth attorney Kathy Stott.
She informed me that there is no parole in Virginia, but that the DOC can let him go for good behavior after he has seved 85% of his time.
She stated Tommy was still defiant Friday claiming he was innocent. ******************************
She stated that Carol and Tammy Chance was there Friday.
She is unaware of where he will serve his time.
Edited to remove inappropriate content.
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....well 85% is also a long way from a few weeks......again, were they speaking in terms of prophetic time............
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....well 85% is also a long way from a few weeks......again, were they speaking in terms of prophetic time............
I hope they are not all laying on beds with black cloths draped over their faces, empty glasses at their bedsides, awaiting the comet...
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....well 85% is also a long way from a few weeks......again, were they speaking in terms of prophetic time............
I hope they are not all laying on beds with black cloths draped over their faces, empty glasses at their bedsides, awaiting the comet...
LOL!!!!!! Now thats funny!
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No. In my opinion they were just spouting off, saying whatever sounded good, regardless of whether there was any rational basis for their statements.
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Usually a molestor or the people who are sympathetic toward them use the 'relative molested them' story as a last explanation. In most cases, the accused relative is deceased, so no one can truly dispute their claim. I'm sure that in many cases, this has happened. But too often, the molestor says that since it happened to them by a trusted relative, then they were unable to stop and reason that what they were doing was harmful and illegal. I don't buy any of that. They know it's wrong and they know it's harmful. They know they can stop doing it as well.
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I agree. No excuse for it.
Kind of like Michael Jackson, blaming his issues on his dad.
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Ok?!! How long do they go without admitting they might have been wrong?
I hope they are not all laying on beds with black cloths draped over their faces, empty glasses at their bedsides, awaiting the comet...
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They are likely waiting for their marching orders from their cult leader. They will parrot whatever explanation Danny comes up with and be consistent with that.
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Is Tommy Danny's brother?
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Is Tommy Danny's brother?
Yes, Tommy is an older brother
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Tommy is the oldest of five. Four boys and one girl. The girl is the youngest, being several years younger than the youngest boy (Danny).
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Is Tommy Danny's brother?
Wow. You didn't know that????????
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This could be a comfort:
Guatemala Dos Erres massacre soldier given 6,060 years
Pedro Pimentel Rios, a former member of an elite Guatemalan military force known as the "kaibiles," attends his trial at a court in Guatemala City, 12 March 2012. Pimentel was involved in one of the most shocking episodes of the civil war
Continue reading the main story
Related Stories
Healing Guatemala's civil war scars
Guatemala ex-leader to face trial
Guatemala apologises for massacre
A court in Guatemala has sentenced a former soldier to 6,060 years in prison for his role in the massacre of 201 people during the civil war.
Pedro Pimentel Rios, 55, was extradited from the US last year.
BBC NEWS
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If he only serves 1% of his sentence, he'll be eligible for parole in only 60.6 years.
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Tommy is in my thoughts and prayers. I trust that his experience will make life safer for some children.
Does anyone here know where Tommy is right now, and if it is possible to send him a message?
Just because some people were devoid of compassion towards Linda does not mean we should have similar feelings towards Tommy. The spirit of Christ tells us to hate sin while we love the sinner.
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Maybe this will say eventually, but nothing comes up yet: http://www.vadoc.virginia.gov/offenders/locator/
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Johann,
Have you ever wondered about the angels comments (so sorry but hope you can read through the lines on this one. I am sure you will know what I mean and don't want to go into detail for reasons of outside SDA view that might be looking in.) The comment refers to a room of people where it is stated that some of those are just food for the worms." Where is their love for perps of evil?? and also at the Crucifixion when Desire of Ages state that Jesus "ignored" the evil ones that cried out for his death. But then on the cross he asked forgiveness as they did not know what they did. Wasnt he talking about the misjudging of the courts because later in scripture he will bring forth the very ones that chose and did his fate. Were they forgiven or not>> I am thinking no.. I have wondered a lot about all this and giving sympathy to the ones that killed Christ. I just can't do that!! But what about those that do know and bring so much destruction to others and live for it, cover for it lie for it and deny it?? Don't you think that some cross over and too late and still walk the earth?? Only people that have the Love of God cannot bear the fall of another human but the one who chose their downfall and placed their self to self only do not have this love for others just their self so what would wasted moments do for them as we all morn for a lost soul. Can't help being a little confused on this point. Some times I think we are instructed to be this way for our brothers in Christ and not the destroyers that we are to shun.....lot to think about for me. I sure do get angry at the evil powers worked through people to bring down the last chance that could save others...
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Johann,
Have you ever wondered about the angels comments (so sorry but hope you can read through the lines on this one. I am sure you will know what I mean and don't want to go into detail for reasons of outside SDA view that might be looking in.) The comment refers to a room of people where it is stated that some of those are just food for the worms." Where is their love for perps of evil?? and also at the Crucifixion when Desire of Ages state that Jesus "ignored" the evil ones that cried out for his death. But then on the cross he asked forgiveness as they did not know what they did. Wasnt he talking about the misjudging of the courts because later in scripture he will bring forth the very ones that chose and did his fate. Were they forgiven or not>> I am thinking no.. I have wondered a lot about all this and giving sympathy to the ones that killed Christ. I just can't do that!! But what about those that do know and bring so much destruction to others and live for it, cover for it lie for it and deny it?? Don't you think that some cross over and too late and still walk the earth?? Only people that have the Love of God cannot bear the fall of another human but the one who chose their downfall and placed their self to self only do not have this love for others just their self so what would wasted moments do for them as we all morn for a lost soul. Can't help being a little confused on this point. Some times I think we are instructed to be this way for our brothers in Christ and not the destroyers that we are to shun.....lot to think about for me. I sure do get angry at the evil powers worked through people to bring down the last chance that could save others...
Tinka,
Nothing changes the fact that God hates sin but loves the sinner. None of us are able to define in others when they have sinned against the Holy Spirit. It could apply to those who make wicked plans counting on forgiveness afterwards, but who am I to judge ?
Who are excluded from singing "Whosoever meaneth me..."?
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Yes, your right I think that mostly happens in the adultery field of preplaning different spouses. In fact years ago I heard that stated with a church 4 some and the preacher faced them one day in church. He asked them all to leave immediately and all sympathizers go with them and they did
It was a shocker in an instant but...all the confusion and turmoil was gone out of the church that instant and I never forgot how it was handled and how it ended.
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I thought he was, but wanted to be more certain. :)
Is Tommy Danny's brother?
Wow. You didn't know that????????
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Johann,
Have you ever wondered about the angels comments (so sorry but hope you can read through the lines on this one. I am sure you will know what I mean and don't want to go into detail for reasons of outside SDA view that might be looking in.) The comment refers to a room of people where it is stated that some of those are just food for the worms." Where is their love for perps of evil?? and also at the Crucifixion when Desire of Ages state that Jesus "ignored" the evil ones that cried out for his death. But then on the cross he asked forgiveness as they did not know what they did. Wasnt he talking about the misjudging of the courts because later in scripture he will bring forth the very ones that chose and did his fate. Were they forgiven or not>> I am thinking no.. I have wondered a lot about all this and giving sympathy to the ones that killed Christ. I just can't do that!! But what about those that do know and bring so much destruction to others and live for it, cover for it lie for it and deny it?? Don't you think that some cross over and too late and still walk the earth?? Only people that have the Love of God cannot bear the fall of another human but the one who chose their downfall and placed their self to self only do not have this love for others just their self so what would wasted moments do for them as we all morn for a lost soul. Can't help being a little confused on this point. Some times I think we are instructed to be this way for our brothers in Christ and not the destroyers that we are to shun.....lot to think about for me. I sure do get angry at the evil powers worked through people to bring down the last chance that could save others...
Tinka,
Nothing changes the fact that God hates sin but loves the sinner. None of us are able to define in others when they have sinned against the Holy Spirit. It could apply to those who make wicked plans counting on forgiveness afterwards, but who am I to judge ?
Who are excluded from singing "Whosoever meaneth me..."?
I am often left to ponder the words of God (Depart from me ye workers of iniquity). It is the lack of love that defines iniquity more than anything. "When I was thirsty ye gave me no drink, in prison and you did not visit me" Naked and ye did not cloth me". Wow, I read this and was a little startled because God did not say depart you HOMO, or Liar or drunkard or fornicator or adulterer.
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Christian, where have you been? Missed seeing you post.
Well, I think most folks when that see that verse about those imprisoned, they think more like Paul and Silas, not thinking about the [guilty} thief on the cross. I don't believe we do it intentionally, I think it just never occurs to us. As I was saying in another thread....Jesus has to be our example......
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It will soon be a requirement by American authorities that Seventh-day Adventist Churches take safety measures against sexual molestation of children. This might be caused by cases where Catholic priests were involved. Adult leaders in the children's divisions of Sabbath School and Pathfinders will be required to apply for an official certificate based on thorough investigations and hearings prior to accepting a position working with children.
The price of the certificate will be $30.00 and is valid for three years. This includes insurance. Without using these certificates the Church could face tremendous claims for damages.
How will this influence our work for children in the future?
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The SDA church could send a loud message to it's members and onlookers by disfellowshipping the people who knowingly did nothing while Tommy Shelton forced himself upon underage boys while employed at 3abn.
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It will soon be a requirement by American authorities that Seventh-day Adventist Churches take safety measures against sexual molestation of children. This might be caused by cases where Catholic priests were involved. Adult leaders in the children's divisions of Sabbath School and Pathfinders will be required to apply for an official certificate based on thorough investigations and hearings prior to accepting a position working with children.
The price of the certificate will be $30.00 and is valid for three years. This includes insurance. Without using these certificates the Church could face tremendous claims for damages.
That is already here and is a requirement in some Conferences, and that number is growing. It is brought about not so much becasue of a legal requirement of the civil government. Rather it is a result of the growing understanding of the legal liability of the local Conference.
As to the stated cost of $30.00, that figure in inaccurate. That cost will vary according to the company that the local Conference retains to process the searches of legal and crlminal data bases. At this point in time some Conferences are paying $200 per person checked.
It should be clearly stated that the charge cited is only a cost to check legal and criminal data bases. It does not include any insurance and under U.S. law it could not include insurance. Insurance is something that must be purchased from a licensed insurance company that provides that type of insurance, such as Chubb. However, it shoudl be noted that such insurance is becomming less and less available.
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Any word on how he is doing in prison?