Barbara has asked me to write a letter regarding how and what she is doing now.....
All very interesting, I must say.
Why didn't Barbara write this herself if there is something to be shared regarding her??Barbara has asked me to write a letter regarding how and what she is doing now.....
Her prayer has always been for the Lord to show her what the truth is regarding the 3ABN saga, and it was very interesting that while in Norway, He did just that. ... Barbara was surprised, and disappointed, in what she learned and she struggled with what to share with all you folks.
Her prayer has always been for the Lord to show her what the truth is regarding the 3ABN saga, and it was very interesting that while in Norway, He did just that. ... Barbara was surprised, and disappointed, in what she learned and she struggled with what to share with all you folks.
JoAnn,
There appears to be a major challenge with the information Barbara learned that must first be surmounted before it can be considered credible.
Just to be clear, or less clear, I did not specify the source of the information that is confronted by an obstacle.
If I am reading between the lines correctly, it sounds as though Barbara found out that Linda and the doctor really did have an affair after all. Please correct me if I am wrong as many of us have also been praying to know the truth. But please don't leave it up in the air for speculation. You can see the conclusion that we may come to in reading that she found something out and that she was disturbed and disappointed. :scratch:
If I am reading between the lines correctly, it sounds as though Barbara found out that Linda and the doctor really did have an affair after all. Please correct me if I am wrong as many of us have also been praying to know the truth. But please don't leave it up in the air for speculation. You can see the conclusion that we may come to in reading that she found something out and that she was disturbed and disappointed. :scratch:
Country Mouse, I would not put too much faith into the "report" from Barbara Kerr, via her mother, concerning Linda Shelton and the Doctor. It appears to be written in such a manner as to purposefully lead one to false conclusions without actually coming out and making a clear statement of fact. Personally, I wonder why Barbara did not come here and share her "disturbing information" herself? Why all the secrecy? A Christian does not handle a situation in this manner. She either comes out and has her say or she remains silent. A mature middle-aged Christian does not send her mother around to various SDA Forums with sly hints and innuendos that would cause others to draw the obvious conclusion that Country Mouse has been lead to deduce.
I believe the letter from Barbara Kerr's mother say much more about their "Christian" characters than it does about either Linda Shelton or Doctor A.
As Linda Shelton challenged Danny to come forward and produce the evidence of adultery. So, I challenge Barbara Kerr to come forward as a Christian and voice her concerns.
If I am reading between the lines correctly, it sounds as though Barbara found out that Linda and the doctor really did have an affair after all. Please correct me if I am wrong as many of us have also been praying to know the truth. But please don't leave it up in the air for speculation. You can see the conclusion that we may come to in reading that she found something out and that she was disturbed and disappointed. :scratch:
I could be wrong, but I think Danny convinced Barbara that Linda was wrong and he was right, and then later Barbara switched to Linda's side. That's how I remember the story.
The whole thing is a bit complex. Who are Barbara's present sources, and are they reliable?
The one thing that is concrete is that Danny in the last half of July 2004 did not know whether Linda had committed fornication or not, for he wrote her that letter that said that she was about to, IF she hadn't already.
So if Brenda's story back then was what it is today, why would Danny have said IF in that letter? That's what doesn't make sense to me.
Well, Mr Joy, I came to that conclusion because Barbara Kerr has always claimed to be on Linda's side and what she found out in Norway surprised and disappointed her. So how did you come to the conclusion that I am on "Mouse Brenda's"side? I just want to know the truth like everyone else here.
I was recently rebaptized when all this happened and it was very upsetting to me what Danny did to Linda. I personally do not believe in spiritual adultry and feel that Danny contrived to get the divorce. I quit sending 3ABN donations after that. So ,Mr Joy, throw your darts somewhere else.
I could be wrong, but I think Danny convinced Barbara that Linda was wrong and he was right, and then later Barbara switched to Linda\'s side. That\'s how I remember the story.
The whole thing is a bit complex. Who are Barbara\'s present sources, and are they reliable?
The one thing that is concrete is that Danny in the last half of July 2004 did not know whether Linda had committed fornication or not, for he wrote her that letter that said that she was about to, IF she hadn\'t already.
So if Brenda\'s story back then was what it is today, why would Danny have said IF in that letter? That\'s what doesn\'t make sense to me.
Sometimes people take alliances with someone for primary reasons other then truth or principal (though they may be part of an supposed alliance).
That is the danger in going by appearances or what is seen, assuming that it means such and such (or the obvious). It\\\'s not always as it appears, and that has been the constant thread through this whole mess.
Part of why Danny knew he could be successful in leading people to think something horrible about Linda without coming right out with it, or showing whatever proof he says exists, is that he knew he only had to act and say things in a particular way, and the people would do the rest in their minds. The problem is, after time, people no longer trust their own assumptions, and have reason to seriously doubt what was implied before them. Because of this type of \\\"telling what happened\\\", people now either don\\\'t care anymore, want to see the evidence, or chose to believe something no matter what without anything to support it.
Human nature...you can always tap into a type of crowd to accomplish whatever you want to. Just find the right crowd (or type) and you got it made - at least for a while until they switch, which often happens with a crowd like this.Well, Mr Joy, I came to that conclusion because Barbara Kerr has always claimed to be on Linda\\\'s side and what she found out in Norway surprised and disappointed her. So how did you come to the conclusion that I am on \\\"Mouse Brenda\\\'s\\\"side? I just want to know the truth like everyone else here.
I was recently rebaptized when all this happened and it was very upsetting to me what Danny did to Linda. I personally do not believe in spiritual adultry and feel that Danny contrived to get the divorce. I quit sending 3ABN donations after that. So ,Mr Joy, throw your darts somewhere else.
If I am reading between the lines correctly, it sounds as though Barbara found out that Linda and the doctor really did have an affair after all. Please correct me if I am wrong as many of us have also been praying to know the truth. But please don't leave it up in the air for speculation. You can see the conclusion that we may come to in reading that she found something out and that she was disturbed and disappointed. :scratch:
I could be wrong, but I think Danny convinced Barbara that Linda was wrong and he was right, and then later Barbara switched to Linda\'s side. That\'s how I remember the story.
I remember it that way too which makes the letter from her mother very curious and interesting.QuoteThe whole thing is a bit complex. Who are Barbara\'s present sources, and are they reliable?
Perhaps you know, I didn\'t see the word \"sources\". Why would she not explain as she previously seemed to have no problem doing so? She had no problem writing some very stout words against Danny Shelton, so I cannot believe it could be anything about him that would be surprising or disappointing to her. If she was wrong, she should correct it. If she wasn\'t it seems she should clarify what her mother meant and was talking about, and not leave people to surmise or speculate on her words, especially if they lead others to believe a lie.
I also think that those here who are representing that they know all about this and are offering arguments without making what they are talking about known are not being upfront or transparent. I have never liked games. (Am I alone here?)QuoteThe one thing that is concrete is that Danny in the last half of July 2004 did not know whether Linda had committed fornication or not, for he wrote her that letter that said that she was about to, IF she hadn\'t already.
So if Brenda\'s story back then was what it is today, why would Danny have said IF in that letter? That\'s what doesn\'t make sense to me.
This is the one thing I would have to disagree with you about here. I can\'t see that as concrete, for if that is what Danny meant in only the one letter, then it makes everything else he said and wrote, both before and since then, null and void. That doesn\'t make sense to me.
My understanding is that the email and words you refer to were what is commonly known as, and referred to as, a \"hypothetical argument\" That is the only way I can logically understand it when considering everything else he has said about this as that is all consistent.
This is just one view from the bleachers.
Well, Mr Joy, I came to that conclusion because Barbara Kerr has always claimed to be on Linda's side and what she found out in Norway surprised and disappointed her. So how did you come to the conclusion that I am on "Mouse Brenda's"side? I just want to know the truth like everyone else here.
I was recently rebaptized when all this happened and it was very upsetting to me what Danny did to Linda. I personally do not believe in spiritual adultry and feel that Danny contrived to get the divorce. I quit sending 3ABN donations after that. So ,Mr Joy, throw your darts somewhere else.
I could be wrong, but I think Danny convinced Barbara that Linda was wrong and he was right, and then later Barbara switched to Linda\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s side. That\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s how I remember the story.
I remember it that way too which makes the letter from her mother very curious and interesting.QuoteThe whole thing is a bit complex. Who are Barbara\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s present sources, and are they reliable?
Perhaps you know, I didn\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t see the word \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"sources\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\". Why would she not explain as she previously seemed to have no problem doing so? She had no problem writing some very stout words against Danny Shelton, so I cannot believe it could be anything about him that would be surprising or disappointing to her. If she was wrong, she should correct it. If she wasn\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t it seems she should clarify what her mother meant and was talking about, and not leave people to surmise or speculate on her words, especially if they lead others to believe a lie.
I also think that those here who are representing that they know all about this and are offering arguments without making what they are talking about known are not being upfront or transparent. I have never liked games. (Am I alone here?)QuoteThe one thing that is concrete is that Danny in the last half of July 2004 did not know whether Linda had committed fornication or not, for he wrote her that letter that said that she was about to, IF she had not already.
So if Brendas story back then was what it is today, why would Danny have said IF in that letter? Thats what doesn\\\'t make sense to me.
This is the one thing I would have to disagree with you about here. I cant see that as concrete, for if that is what Danny meant in only the one letter, then it makes everything else he said and wrote, both before and since then, null and void. That doesn\\\'t make sense to me.
My understanding is that the email and words you refer to were what is commonly known as, and referred to as, a \\\"hypothetical argument\\\" That is the only way I can logically understand it when considering everything else he has said about this as that is all consistent.
This is just one view from the bleachers.
Jack, whatever you are doing that is putting in those slashes, could you stop?
If Barbara wants to discuss her sources, she can, but I will not.
Danny said what he said. He said, IF What evidence do you know of that linda committed fornication prior to Danny writing that letter?
Well, Mr Joy, I came to that conclusion because Barbara Kerr has always claimed to be on Linda\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s side and what she found out in Norway surprised and disappointed her. So how did you come to the conclusion that I am on \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"Mouse Brenda\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"side? I just want to know the truth like everyone else here.
I was recently rebaptized when all this happened and it was very upsetting to me what Danny did to Linda. I personally do not believe in spiritual adultry and feel that Danny contrived to get the divorce. I quit sending 3ABN donations after that. So ,Mr Joy, throw your darts somewhere else.
Well, countrymouse, it is a well known fact that Barbara Kerr has vascilated on this issue over the years. Since the great dissappointment came while she was being treated iin Norway, three years after the divorce, perhaps you should look in that corner and not pretentiously propose that it in any way relates to an affair.
The truth is well known and only the most oblivious blind mouse would still be looking for the truth in regards to the question Linda of having an affair with the Dr in 2004. Not even Danny has asserted that premise and that makes you less than an honest assessor.
And I will throw darts at any balloon that prevaricates ludicrousity!!! Even with a countymouse in it.
Gailon Arthur Joy
This is a test post you the following words:
doesn't
didn't
Linda's
that's
"test phrase"
As they are working OK when I do it, something is obviously being used by Jack to cause this to happen.
This is a test post you the following words:
doesn't
didn't
Linda's
that's
"test phrase"
As they are working OK when I do it, something is obviously being used by Jack to cause this to happen.
Is Jack possibly using something like a free web proxy that would cause it?.
I arrived home from North Dakota a few days ago and opened up Advent Talk. Much to my dismay, I found all the "surmising" and "assuming" regarding the letter I wrote about Barbara. I am a retired Life Insurance agent and many years ago, my supervisor told me never to assume anything because those who do, are usually wrong and it makes everyone look bad. Plainly speaking, your assumptions are wrong.Jo Ann, I asked you a question in a Private Message on another Forum (BSDA) and rather than answering it privately there, you bring it up publically here. Why? What is your purpose? In God's time perhaps the truth about why Barbara was asked to leave Norway may come to light. It says much more about certain aspects of her character than a mother may choose to admit. Many mothers have a blind spot when it comes to the characters of their beloved child and are willing to defend that child no matter the circumstances.
For those who asked, I'll tell you why Barbara did not write the letter herself. She, like Linda, does not go on any forum any more, nor has she since she came home from Norway and tried to write. Reading all the "stuff" people wrote was just too upsetting for her and her health could not take it. Over the past year, I would go on BSDA and see that there were some people sincerely asking about her and I'd relay that on, letting her know she did have many friends genuinely concerned about her health and how she was doing.
We discussed how best to let those who love her know she was much better and we decided that I would be the one to write the letter. I posted it on BSDA and, (this is for you, Sister) I decided to also post it on Advent Talk (knowing many of her friends were also reading here) ~ THEN, I informed Barbara on the following day of what I had done. This was NOT about playing games, Sister. Barbara has never gone to Advent Talk and, as I said before, she also no longer visits BSDA.
Sorry Grammie T, Barbara won't be coming on this forum or any other. I am Barbara's mother and thank you for the apology. Like I said in the letter; God, in His own time, will reveal what He wants known. The purpose of my letter was to let those who wanted to know 'why' Barbara hadn't written sooner ~ the "Why" - and that she is doing fine. I also want to let you "naysayers" know that I keep in contact with Linda and talk to her on the phone, the last time being just two weeks ago. We see each other when our paths cross.
I want to thank those of you (Grandmad, Servant, Ian, Habanero, Fran and many others) for your kindness shown to Barbara and who have been appreciative for the update. For those who don't know, you may go to BSDA and open the Praise and Testmony thread where you will find Barbara's 'Love Letter From Norway'. To read her "Open Letter" explaining her involvement with 3ABN, click on 3ABN (Links and Resources) here on Advent Talk.
Barbara has the following statement by H.M.S. Richards, Sr. posted in her office and around her house so she can read it readily throughout the day. Perhaps everyone should read it at least once a day to keep focused on what is truly important in life!!Keep At Your Work
"The Lord has given to every man his work. It is his business to do it and the devil's business to hinder him if he can. So, surely as God has given you a work to do, Satan will try to hinder you. He may present other things more promising. He may allure you by worldly prospects. He may assult you with slander, torment you with false accusations, set you to work defending your character, employ pious persons to lie about you, editors to assail you, and excellent men to slander you. You may have Pilate and Herod, Annas and Caiaphas all combined against you, and Judas standing by ready to sell you for thirty pieces of silver; and you may wonder why all those things come to you. Can you not see that the whole thing is brought about through the craft of the devil to draw you off from your work and hinder your obedience to God?
Keep about your work. Do not flinch because the lion roars, do not stop to stone the devil's dogs; do not fool away your time chasing the devil's rabbits. Do your work. Let liars lie, let sectarians quarrel, let corporations resolve, let editors publish, let the devil do his worst; but see to it that nothing hinders you from fulfilling the work that God has given you.
He has not sent you to make money. He has not commanded you to get rich. He has never bidden you to defend your character. He has not set you at work to contradict falsehood which Satan and his servants may start to peddle. If you do these things, you will do nothing else; you will be at work for yourself and not for the Lord.
Keep about your work. Let your AIM be as steady as a star. Let the world brawl and bubble. You may be assaulted, wronged, insulted, slandered, wounded and rejected; you may be abused by foes, forsaken by friends, and despised and rejected of men, but see to it with steadfast determination, with unfaltering zeal, that you pursue the great purpose of your life and object of your being, until at last you can say, 'I have finished the work which Thou gavest me to do.' By: H.M.S. Richards, Sr., Founder of Voice of Prophecy.
Barbara is determined to be about her Lord's work. She is happy, content and full of joy. She loves people and is doing all she can to fulfill the covenant she made with God when she was dying of Crohn's Disease ~ that if He would spare her life, she would spend the rest of her life helping people to never get as sick as she was. God honored that prayer and is blessing her beyond measure. I am thankful I have such a Godly daughter who loves Jesus with all her heart!
I pray for God's blessings on all of you.
Jo Ann
Dear JoAnn:
First of all, I know that all of us are very glad to hear that Barbara is doing well.
Thank you for getting back to us. However your further comments leave somewhat to be desired. :dunno: Your original post mentioned:
"It has been a little over a year since she has returned home from Norway and as she contemplated writing you all a letter (and she did start a few times) ~ she just didn't quite know what to say; Or, should I say, she didn't know what NOT to say. Last fall, she felt impressed not to post anything at that time, and given the direction the law suits have taken, I believe it was a wise decision to remain silent.
Her prayer has always been for the Lord to show her what the truth is regarding the 3ABN saga, and it was very interesting that while in Norway, He did just that. She originally planned a 2 month stay for treatment but then it was extended an additional month. Due to needing still more treatment, the doctor advised that she remain for the fourth month. Had Barbara returned home at the end of two months, or even three months, the information given her that fourth month just wouldn't have happened. Not that she pursued it...she didn't, not even knowing that it existed but, perhaps it was Providential that her stay was extended? We think so. Barbara was surprised, and disappointed, in what she learned and she struggled with what to share with all you folks. After several attempts at writing, but not comfortable with posting her findings, she has put it in the Lord's Hands and in His time, He will reveal all."
The underlined portion above is what is causing all the controversy. Perhaps it would have been better not to have said anything at all rather than what was said. Are you saying that the truth is different than what she testified to in her letter to BSDA before she went to Norway? Did the Lord show her that something that we all believe is less than the truth? Otherwise, why would she find it so hard to tell? And it sems a little late to be bringing it up at all unless you are going to be completely forthcoming with all that was learned.
And what does Sister mean when she says: "Jo Ann, I asked you a question in a Private Message on another Forum (BSDA) and rather than answering it privately there, you bring it up publically here. Why? What is your purpose? In God's time perhaps the truth about why Barbara was asked to leave Norway may come to light. It says much more about certain aspects of her character than a mother may choose to admit. Many mothers have a blind spot when it comes to the characters of their beloved child and are willing to defend that child no matter the circumstances.
Sister"
Just what does the bolded statement mean, Sister? Can you enlighten us? These posts just make everything that much more questionable, IMHO, and frankly, I getting more than a little tired of all the cloak and dagger innuendo that it generates. :rabbit:
Please, everybody, stop all the 'suggestive nonsense' and TELL ALL OF THE TRUTH! for a change. I'm sorry for yelling, but . . . :help:
GrammieT
One thing we all know is that anyone who joins the fray on either side will be shredded into coleslaw no matter what they know, or think they know. There is no clean and graceful entry, stay or exit from the 3ABN scandals.
Both sides appear to believe strongly that they are on a righteous crusade to protect the integrity of God's work, His church. Both believe they are right and the other side wrong.
Both sides appear to believe strongly that they are on a righteous crusade to protect the integrity of God's work, His church. Both believe they are right and the other side wrong.
I highly doubt that.
Both sides appear to believe strongly that they are on a righteous crusade to protect the integrity of God's work, His church. Both believe they are right and the other side wrong.
I highly doubt that.
Both sides appear to believe strongly that they are on a righteous crusade to protect the integrity of God's work, His church. Both believe they are right and the other side wrong.
. . . Perhaps we need to review our marching orders. Astounding what will be done in the name of the Lord.
No, I don't believe that both sides believe they are right.
I do not believe that Danny Shelton and Walt Thompson believe they are right in claiming that Danny had biblical grounds for divorce since Danny admitted after the divorce that he didn't know whether Linda had committed fornication or not.
I do not believe that Danny and Walt are in the same position as the religious leaders of Christ's time who thought they were doing God's service when they hired false witnesses and lied and murdered.
Perhaps I am naive, but that is my opinion at present.
Both sides appear to believe strongly that they are on a righteous crusade to protect the integrity of God's work, His church. Both believe they are right and the other side wrong.
. . . Perhaps we need to review our marching orders. Astounding what will be done in the name of the Lord.
Both sides may believe that they are on the right track, but only one side has the evidence to prove it.
High-sounding spiritual statements cannot hide this fact.
No, I don't believe that both sides believe they are right.
I do not believe that Danny Shelton and Walt Thompson believe they are right in claiming that Danny had biblical grounds for divorce since Danny admitted after the divorce that he didn't know whether Linda had committed fornication or not.
I do not believe that Danny and Walt are in the same position as the religious leaders of Christ's time who thought they were doing God's service when they hired false witnesses and lied and murdered.
Perhaps I am naive, but that is my opinion at present.
If one side does not believe, even if that reservation is deep in their psyche, that their cause is a just one, then they are treading on thin ice.
Just like in Johann's dream...
Come now. One might say that there are well-informed, active people on both sides who do not believe that they are on a righteouls crusade.
Even if one did this, surely one would still say that there are many on each side who are on a righteours crusade to protect the integrity of God's work and His church.
NOTE: On a personal basis, I am willing to acknowledge that all involved people beleive that they are on a righteous crusade.
Come now. One might say that there are well-informed, active people on both sides who do not believe that they are on a righteouls crusade.
Even if one did this, surely one would still say that there are many on each side who are on a righteours crusade to protect the integrity of God's work and His church.
NOTE: On a personal basis, I am willing to acknowledge that all involved people beleive that they are on a righteous crusade.
Then, out of the blue, a request for assistance with the return of service for a subpeona to an individual outside the Walla Walla area suddenly explodes right in our hands and we find one with whom we were of united purpose clarifying that it was the purpose of their new circle to rescue the central figure in this saga from the "clutches" of those misguided and to help her to put distance between herself and Pickle and Joy. A new dimension indeed!!! Intrigue of the finest kind!!! And clarity quickly came out of the fog...Pickle and Joy had leprosy...yes, leprosy was the culprit...stay away at all costs!!!
[Yes,Gailon, this was a new dimension. This change in direction cam from Linda herself, as you well know. It was her personal decision and it was not one that anyone else attempted to persuade her to make--Gregory Matthews.]
Yes, suddenly, we were the problem. We had become the oppressors. We were the reason her career would not recover. We were the source of the problem that kept directors and officers of 3ABN working overtime to prevent her public speaking is the SDA churches. Our defense was just too strong an offense for the easily offended and we were clearly destined to loose the defamation lawsuit!!!
[The above seems to me to be an overstatement (exrageration) but, if you want to make that claim, so be it--Gregory Matthews.]
Indeed, a re-alignment of attorneys became neccasary as the conflict became grossly apparent. And there is no question that sources are no longer reliable witnesses so they can move on with their lives and avoid leprosy...and documentation is now the key.
[Yes, as you well know and I believe you publicly stated in a post here in Advent Talk, the litigation had become so complex that it was appropriate to consider how Linda's interests could best be represented and that was what she requested. But, that is simply how some legal cases develop should simply be considered a normal consequence of how this case was developing. That happens regularly in litigation. Lawyers advise their client to seek further assistance from other litigators. But, you know that--Gregory Matthews.]
In summary, Mr Gregory, these are not "crusaders"...on the contrary, they elect to avoid conflict at every turn; they do not challenge evil, but would rather elect by default to co-exist with it in some form of peaceful detante. LAODICEA is alive and well and the Aachans that Grandma Nettie refers to run unchallenged and brazenly unfettered throughout christendom under the guise of "crusaders" for Christ while picking the pockets of the saints and the not so saintly in their crusading campaigns.
[Gailon, litigation seldom settles every aspect of the case in a nice neat manner. In the very beginning I stated that each side of the litigatin would probably win some and lose some and it would remain to be seen who would be the ultimate winner. Many of the aspects of this case lie outside of the ability of the denomination to resolve and lie in the realm of the civil authorities. IRS compoliance, copyright, defamation of character and much more clearly are outside of denominaitonal bounds and lie in the civil realm. Clearly, you and others associated with you, back in the very beginning, proclaimed that you would welcome the civil authorities to enter the fray and to render their judgement. This lawsuit is clearly the answer to the desire of some for the civil authorities to become involved as was the IRS investigation. The reality is that any failure of the IRS to find wrong doing is a major blow to those who made a major issue of IRS compliance. The reality is that the likely hood of 3-ABN prevailing in the lawsuit in regard to libel and defamination of character is greatly increased. Like it or not, the civil authorities will render their verdict in the issues before them and people will have to live with that verdict regardles of what it is--Gregory Matthews.]
No, Mr Gregory, there is no "righteous crusade' but simply a war; an insidious un-civil war where there are no "loyalties". Their is no army and one cannot count on the truth, support or ethics of "christians" and their morally challenged "compass".
[In regard to "righteous crusade," as I have said, I believe that people on both sides believed that they werr on a righteous crusade defending truth and justice. Those who cannot understand this are simply showing their failure to understand the issues. One of the aspects of war is the requirement to understand the thinking of the other side. A failure to understand the thinking of the other side will typically resullt in a compromised battle plan--Gregory Matthews.]
The paths on every front are littered with the bodies of the less battle hardened and the weak. And the strong plunder on without regard to the broken and bleeding bodies on all sides of the many battlefields.
Ironically, one can only document their way to victory and trust the truth will be revealed and that those who see it, recognize it. The remainder will remain ignorant unto death. So be it!!!
But, the lesson learned once, again and forever, It was Joy and Pickle that troubleth Israel!!!
Here, in the twists and turns of this LITTLE saga, has been played out all the intrique, backstabbing and bitter engagements that illuminate the Great Controversy of which we are all a part. Will there be any winners or are we all in some important way loosers???
Maybe, just maybe, the missing element in the entire process has been CHRISTIANITY!!! In other words, maybe we ALL are on the outside looking in!!!
[Ah, Gailon, your have hit on a major truth in my thinking. One issue as I see it is that people on both sides have decended to doing what they accuse the other side of doing--Gregory Matthews.]
[NOTE: In the above statement, I do not refer to criminal activites. So, I am not accusing anyone of committing any crimes--Gregory Matthews.]
Gailon Arthur Joy
NOTE: I have abridged the following quote and I am inserting my responses and comments in brackets [ ] .Come now. One might say that there are well-informed, active people on both sides who do not believe that they are on a righteouls crusade.
Even if one did this, surely one would still say that there are many on each side who are on a righteours crusade to protect the integrity of God's work and His church.
NOTE: On a personal basis, I am willing to acknowledge that all involved people beleive that they are on a righteous crusade.
Then, out of the blue, a request for assistance with the return of service for a subpeona to an individual outside the Walla Walla area suddenly explodes right in our hands and we find one with whom we were of united purpose clarifying that it was the purpose of their new circle to rescue the central figure in this saga from the "clutches" of those misguided and to help her to put distance between herself and Pickle and Joy. A new dimension indeed!!! Intrigue of the finest kind!!! And clarity quickly came out of the fog...Pickle and Joy had leprosy...yes, leprosy was the culprit...stay away at all costs!!!
[Yes,Gailon, this was a new dimension. This change in direction cam from Linda herself, as you well know. It was her personal decision and it was not one that anyone else attempted to persuade her to make--Gregory Matthews.]
Yes, suddenly, we were the problem. We had become the oppressors. We were the reason her career would not recover. We were the source of the problem that kept directors and officers of 3ABN working overtime to prevent her public speaking is the SDA churches. Our defense was just too strong an offense for the easily offended and we were clearly destined to loose the defamation lawsuit!!!
[The above seems to me to be an overstatement (exrageration) but, if you want to make that claim, so be it--Gregory Matthews.]
Indeed, a re-alignment of attorneys became neccasary as the conflict became grossly apparent. And there is no question that sources are no longer reliable witnesses so they can move on with their lives and avoid leprosy...and documentation is now the key.
[Yes, as you well know and I believe you publicly stated in a post here in Advent Talk, the litigation had become so complex that it was appropriate to consider how Linda's interests could best be represented and that was what she requested. But, that is simply how some legal cases develop should simply be considered a normal consequence of how this case was developing. That happens regularly in litigation. Lawyers advise their client to seek further assistance from other litigators. But, you know that--Gregory Matthews.]
In summary, Mr Gregory, these are not "crusaders"...on the contrary, they elect to avoid conflict at every turn; they do not challenge evil, but would rather elect by default to co-exist with it in some form of peaceful detante. LAODICEA is alive and well and the Aachans that Grandma Nettie refers to run unchallenged and brazenly unfettered throughout christendom under the guise of "crusaders" for Christ while picking the pockets of the saints and the not so saintly in their crusading campaigns.
[Gailon, litigation seldom settles every aspect of the case in a nice neat manner. In the very beginning I stated that each side of the litigatin would probably win some and lose some and it would remain to be seen who would be the ultimate winner. Many of the aspects of this case lie outside of the ability of the denomination to resolve and lie in the realm of the civil authorities. IRS compoliance, copyright, defamation of character and much more clearly are outside of denominaitonal bounds and lie in the civil realm. Clearly, you and others associated with you, back in the very beginning, proclaimed that you would welcome the civil authorities to enter the fray and to render their judgement. This lawsuit is clearly the answer to the desire of some for the civil authorities to become involved as was the IRS investigation. The reality is that any failure of the IRS to find wrong doing is a major blow to those who made a major issue of IRS compliance. The reality is that the likely hood of 3-ABN prevailing in the lawsuit in regard to libel and defamination of character is greatly increased. Like it or not, the civil authorities will render their verdict in the issues before them and people will have to live with that verdict regardles of what it is--Gregory Matthews.]
No, Mr Gregory, there is no "righteous crusade' but simply a war; an insidious un-civil war where there are no "loyalties". Their is no army and one cannot count on the truth, support or ethics of "christians" and their morally challenged "compass".
[In regard to "righteous crusade," as I have said, I believe that people on both sides believed that they werr on a righteous crusade defending truth and justice. Those who cannot understand this are simply showing their failure to understand the issues. One of the aspects of war is the requirement to understand the thinking of the other side. A failure to understand the thinking of the other side will typically resullt in a compromised battle plan--Gregory Matthews.]
The paths on every front are littered with the bodies of the less battle hardened and the weak. And the strong plunder on without regard to the broken and bleeding bodies on all sides of the many battlefields.
Ironically, one can only document their way to victory and trust the truth will be revealed and that those who see it, recognize it. The remainder will remain ignorant unto death. So be it!!!
But, the lesson learned once, again and forever, It was Joy and Pickle that troubleth Israel!!!
Here, in the twists and turns of this LITTLE saga, has been played out all the intrique, backstabbing and bitter engagements that illuminate the Great Controversy of which we are all a part. Will there be any winners or are we all in some important way loosers???
Maybe, just maybe, the missing element in the entire process has been CHRISTIANITY!!! In other words, maybe we ALL are on the outside looking in!!!
[Ah, Gailon, your have hit on a major truth in my thinking. One issue as I see it is that people on both sides have decended to doing what they accuse the other side of doing--Gregory Matthews.]
[NOTE: In the above statement, I do not refer to criminal activites. So, I am not accusing anyone of committing any crimes--Gregory Matthews.]
Gailon Arthur Joy
By the way, The Boston area is a beautifu area. At the request of the General Conference I spent 6 days there in May. I had not visited Boston since about 1979. Congratulations on living in a nice area.
What is confidentiality? Does it give anyone the right to make untrue statements?
What is confidentiality? Does it give anyone the right to make untrue statements?
When the truth is told, I will not be surprised if some view it as untrue. Those who are so invested, so loyal that they have bought the lies that have been told will likely continue to do so even when, ultimately, the evidence is clear. That seems to be the nature of this conflict.
What is confidentiality? Does it give anyone the right to make untrue statements?
Johann:In the United States the right of a person to make an untrue statement is governed by the First Ammendment.
However, in a situation where confidentiality is involved, and an untrue statement is made, or even a public statement that is true, the right to confidentiality will often be considered to have been waieved.
You see there are two issues that may come into play:
1) When a person who holds the right to confidentiality attacks another that holder of confidentiality can not prevent the attacked person from responding to the attack to include responding by revealing confidential infnormaiton. That attack will be considered to be a waiever of confidentiallity.
2) When the person who holds the right to confidentiality comments publicy (or in many cases even comments privately) in regard to a situation covered by confidentialy will be considered to have waieved that confidentiality. In short, if you want to something to be kept confidential, do not make any public comment about it in any manner, and in most cases (with a few exceptions) do not make any private comment about it. If you do, you may be considered to have waieved any right you have to confidentiality.
Folks, a number of people have given up a lot due to the public and private comments that they have made.
What is confidentiality? Does it give anyone the right to make untrue statements?
As Gregory has explained, when a public statement is made about a subject where confidentiality is involved, that will often cause the right to confidentiality to be waived.
It gives others the right to make statements. If they choose to make untrue statements, that will be unfortunate. I am certain that Gregory will not do so. Nobody needs to defend themselves with untruths in this case. The best defense is simply the truth. Sadly, some have believed the untruths that have already been told.
When the truth is told, I will not be surprised if some view it as untrue. Those who are so invested, so loyal that they have bought the lies that have been told will likely continue to do so even when, ultimately, the evidence is clear. That seems to be the nature of this conflict.
NOTE: I have abridged the following quote and I am inserting my responses and comments in brackets [ ] .Come now. One might say that there are well-informed, active people on both sides who do not believe that they are on a righteouls crusade.
Even if one did this, surely one would still say that there are many on each side who are on a righteours crusade to protect the integrity of God's work and His church.
NOTE: On a personal basis, I am willing to acknowledge that all involved people beleive that they are on a righteous crusade.
Then, out of the blue, a request for assistance with the return of service for a subpeona to an individual outside the Walla Walla area suddenly explodes right in our hands and we find one with whom we were of united purpose clarifying that it was the purpose of their new circle to rescue the central figure in this saga from the "clutches" of those misguided and to help her to put distance between herself and Pickle and Joy. A new dimension indeed!!! Intrigue of the finest kind!!! And clarity quickly came out of the fog...Pickle and Joy had leprosy...yes, leprosy was the culprit...stay away at all costs!!!
[Yes,Gailon, this was a new dimension. This change in direction cam from Linda herself, as you well know. It was her personal decision and it was not one that anyone else attempted to persuade her to make--Gregory Matthews.]
Yes, suddenly, we were the problem. We had become the oppressors. We were the reason her career would not recover. We were the source of the problem that kept directors and officers of 3ABN working overtime to prevent her public speaking is the SDA churches. Our defense was just too strong an offense for the easily offended and we were clearly destined to loose the defamation lawsuit!!!
[The above seems to me to be an overstatement (exrageration) but, if you want to make that claim, so be it--Gregory Matthews.]
Indeed, a re-alignment of attorneys became neccasary as the conflict became grossly apparent. And there is no question that sources are no longer reliable witnesses so they can move on with their lives and avoid leprosy...and documentation is now the key.
[Yes, as you well know and I believe you publicly stated in a post here in Advent Talk, the litigation had become so complex that it was appropriate to consider how Linda's interests could best be represented and that was what she requested. But, that is simply how some legal cases develop should simply be considered a normal consequence of how this case was developing. That happens regularly in litigation. Lawyers advise their client to seek further assistance from other litigators. But, you know that--Gregory Matthews.]
In summary, Mr Gregory, these are not "crusaders"...on the contrary, they elect to avoid conflict at every turn; they do not challenge evil, but would rather elect by default to co-exist with it in some form of peaceful detante. LAODICEA is alive and well and the Aachans that Grandma Nettie refers to run unchallenged and brazenly unfettered throughout christendom under the guise of "crusaders" for Christ while picking the pockets of the saints and the not so saintly in their crusading campaigns.
[Gailon, litigation seldom settles every aspect of the case in a nice neat manner. In the very beginning I stated that each side of the litigatin would probably win some and lose some and it would remain to be seen who would be the ultimate winner. Many of the aspects of this case lie outside of the ability of the denomination to resolve and lie in the realm of the civil authorities. IRS compoliance, copyright, defamation of character and much more clearly are outside of denominaitonal bounds and lie in the civil realm. Clearly, you and others associated with you, back in the very beginning, proclaimed that you would welcome the civil authorities to enter the fray and to render their judgement. This lawsuit is clearly the answer to the desire of some for the civil authorities to become involved as was the IRS investigation. The reality is that any failure of the IRS to find wrong doing is a major blow to those who made a major issue of IRS compliance. The reality is that the likely hood of 3-ABN prevailing in the lawsuit in regard to libel and defamination of character is greatly increased. Like it or not, the civil authorities will render their verdict in the issues before them and people will have to live with that verdict regardles of what it is--Gregory Matthews.]
No, Mr Gregory, there is no "righteous crusade' but simply a war; an insidious un-civil war where there are no "loyalties". Their is no army and one cannot count on the truth, support or ethics of "christians" and their morally challenged "compass".
[In regard to "righteous crusade," as I have said, I believe that people on both sides believed that they werr on a righteous crusade defending truth and justice. Those who cannot understand this are simply showing their failure to understand the issues. One of the aspects of war is the requirement to understand the thinking of the other side. A failure to understand the thinking of the other side will typically resullt in a compromised battle plan--Gregory Matthews.]
The paths on every front are littered with the bodies of the less battle hardened and the weak. And the strong plunder on without regard to the broken and bleeding bodies on all sides of the many battlefields.
Ironically, one can only document their way to victory and trust the truth will be revealed and that those who see it, recognize it. The remainder will remain ignorant unto death. So be it!!!
But, the lesson learned once, again and forever, It was Joy and Pickle that troubleth Israel!!!
Here, in the twists and turns of this LITTLE saga, has been played out all the intrique, backstabbing and bitter engagements that illuminate the Great Controversy of which we are all a part. Will there be any winners or are we all in some important way loosers???
Maybe, just maybe, the missing element in the entire process has been CHRISTIANITY!!! In other words, maybe we ALL are on the outside looking in!!!
[Ah, Gailon, your have hit on a major truth in my thinking. One issue as I see it is that people on both sides have decended to doing what they accuse the other side of doing--Gregory Matthews.]
[NOTE: In the above statement, I do not refer to criminal activites. So, I am not accusing anyone of committing any crimes--Gregory Matthews.]
Gailon Arthur Joy
By the way, The Boston area is a beautifu area. At the request of the General Conference I spent 6 days there in May. I had not visited Boston since about 1979. Congratulations on living in a nice area.
Sorry you have become so deluded, Sam.
No matter even if Linda did all that Danny said she did, the way he treated her on world wide television blatantly shows his disregard for human beings in general and Linda specifically.
Always seemed strange to me that on their website 3ABN kept saying they wanted to consider Lindas feelings, while on world wide television weekly Danny et al would say some of the most horrible things about her. Why didnt they just honor her like they claimed on their website and not trash her on world wide tv like they did? Sounds like two face to me.
Sams remark never satisfy my questions.
NOTE: I have abridged the following quote and I am inserting my responses and comments in brackets [ ] .Come now. One might say that there are well-informed, active people on both sides who do not believe that they are on a righteouls crusade.
Even if one did this, surely one would still say that there are many on each side who are on a righteours crusade to protect the integrity of God's work and His church.
NOTE: On a personal basis, I am willing to acknowledge that all involved people beleive that they are on a righteous crusade.
Then, out of the blue, a request for assistance with the return of service for a subpeona to an individual outside the Walla Walla area suddenly explodes right in our hands and we find one with whom we were of united purpose clarifying that it was the purpose of their new circle to rescue the central figure in this saga from the "clutches" of those misguided and to help her to put distance between herself and Pickle and Joy. A new dimension indeed!!! Intrigue of the finest kind!!! And clarity quickly came out of the fog...Pickle and Joy had leprosy...yes, leprosy was the culprit...stay away at all costs!!!
[Yes,Gailon, this was a new dimension. This change in direction cam from Linda herself, as you well know. It was her personal decision and it was not one that anyone else attempted to persuade her to make--Gregory Matthews.]
Yes, suddenly, we were the problem. We had become the oppressors. We were the reason her career would not recover. We were the source of the problem that kept directors and officers of 3ABN working overtime to prevent her public speaking is the SDA churches. Our defense was just too strong an offense for the easily offended and we were clearly destined to loose the defamation lawsuit!!!
[The above seems to me to be an overstatement (exrageration) but, if you want to make that claim, so be it--Gregory Matthews.]
Indeed, a re-alignment of attorneys became neccasary as the conflict became grossly apparent. And there is no question that sources are no longer reliable witnesses so they can move on with their lives and avoid leprosy...and documentation is now the key.
[Yes, as you well know and I believe you publicly stated in a post here in Advent Talk, the litigation had become so complex that it was appropriate to consider how Linda's interests could best be represented and that was what she requested. But, that is simply how some legal cases develop should simply be considered a normal consequence of how this case was developing. That happens regularly in litigation. Lawyers advise their client to seek further assistance from other litigators. But, you know that--Gregory Matthews.]
In summary, Mr Gregory, these are not "crusaders"...on the contrary, they elect to avoid conflict at every turn; they do not challenge evil, but would rather elect by default to co-exist with it in some form of peaceful detante. LAODICEA is alive and well and the Aachans that Grandma Nettie refers to run unchallenged and brazenly unfettered throughout christendom under the guise of "crusaders" for Christ while picking the pockets of the saints and the not so saintly in their crusading campaigns.
[Gailon, litigation seldom settles every aspect of the case in a nice neat manner. In the very beginning I stated that each side of the litigatin would probably win some and lose some and it would remain to be seen who would be the ultimate winner. Many of the aspects of this case lie outside of the ability of the denomination to resolve and lie in the realm of the civil authorities. IRS compoliance, copyright, defamation of character and much more clearly are outside of denominaitonal bounds and lie in the civil realm. Clearly, you and others associated with you, back in the very beginning, proclaimed that you would welcome the civil authorities to enter the fray and to render their judgement. This lawsuit is clearly the answer to the desire of some for the civil authorities to become involved as was the IRS investigation. The reality is that any failure of the IRS to find wrong doing is a major blow to those who made a major issue of IRS compliance. The reality is that the likely hood of 3-ABN prevailing in the lawsuit in regard to libel and defamination of character is greatly increased. Like it or not, the civil authorities will render their verdict in the issues before them and people will have to live with that verdict regardles of what it is--Gregory Matthews.]
No, Mr Gregory, there is no "righteous crusade' but simply a war; an insidious un-civil war where there are no "loyalties". Their is no army and one cannot count on the truth, support or ethics of "christians" and their morally challenged "compass".
[In regard to "righteous crusade," as I have said, I believe that people on both sides believed that they werr on a righteous crusade defending truth and justice. Those who cannot understand this are simply showing their failure to understand the issues. One of the aspects of war is the requirement to understand the thinking of the other side. A failure to understand the thinking of the other side will typically resullt in a compromised battle plan--Gregory Matthews.]
The paths on every front are littered with the bodies of the less battle hardened and the weak. And the strong plunder on without regard to the broken and bleeding bodies on all sides of the many battlefields.
Ironically, one can only document their way to victory and trust the truth will be revealed and that those who see it, recognize it. The remainder will remain ignorant unto death. So be it!!!
But, the lesson learned once, again and forever, It was Joy and Pickle that troubleth Israel!!!
Here, in the twists and turns of this LITTLE saga, has been played out all the intrique, backstabbing and bitter engagements that illuminate the Great Controversy of which we are all a part. Will there be any winners or are we all in some important way loosers???
Maybe, just maybe, the missing element in the entire process has been CHRISTIANITY!!! In other words, maybe we ALL are on the outside looking in!!!
[Ah, Gailon, your have hit on a major truth in my thinking. One issue as I see it is that people on both sides have decended to doing what they accuse the other side of doing--Gregory Matthews.]
[NOTE: In the above statement, I do not refer to criminal activites. So, I am not accusing anyone of committing any crimes--Gregory Matthews.]
Gailon Arthur Joy
By the way, The Boston area is a beautifu area. At the request of the General Conference I spent 6 days there in May. I had not visited Boston since about 1979. Congratulations on living in a nice area.
For so long we heard that Linda was "keeping silent", taking the "high road" and 3abn was trashing her. The above highlighted statement clearly shows the working relationship between Linda, Pickle, and Joy. Joy also mentions taking on the task of restoring what he believed to have been taken from her. In light of just these 2 statements, how can anyone continue to deny that so much of the faulty, twisted, and false information released by Pickle and Joy did, indeed, come from Linda? There was no "silence" and "taking the high road" going on. The exact opposite was taking place by someone who wanted to exact revenge on their ex husband and 3abn and were willing to use Pickle, Joy and anyone else that would play the part, while she remained the "silent" partner. As the plans kept changing, those that did not fit into the role she needed them to play were cast by the wayside and new gullible players were "picked up" to play the new roles.
While 3abn went about life as usual which means spreading the gospel 24/7, the ex vp has been totally caught up and active in eroding the reputations of Danny, Mollie, the 3abn board, the Shelton family, and anyone else caught in the cross fire. Anyone who believed that she was not behind this campaign was wearing huge blinders, ear plugs and using only a teeny tiny portion of their brain. All of those that have stood behind 3abn and "vouched" for the integrity of Gods ministry, were those that had spent time there, with Danny with Linda, with employees and had witnessed, first hand, how the campaign started, who started it, and why. People like Jim G, Doug B, Kenneth C. Garwin M, Owen Troy, Wintley P. and so many others knew the difference between truth and revenge. They knew the people, had first hand experience and watched the progression of the Doctor's entrance into the picture through counseling, the seperation and the divorce. It was no secret where Linda headed directly following the divorce. It was no secret to the insiders that for all the blame put on Danny getting a "quickie divorce" that Linda was the one who instigated it by making a threat that is too long to go into now. She knew then by forcing Danny to file it would make him look like the bad guy. The pattern was one set up after another but only those on the inside that knew Danny and the 3abn board personally, knew those patterns and knew the truth.
When the smear campaign first began, there was talk of putting out the "evidence" to stop the lies before they even got a good headstart. But after prayer, discussion and legal advice, they decided against it for several reasons. In hindsight I'm sure they never dreamed it would get to the point that it did, or they may have made a different decision.
As more and more people started to believe what they were reading about 3abn, there also was a growing, opposite camp of influential people, members of leadership, conference officials etc.. who were seeing more and more of who was behind this campaign and knowing themselves that many things being told were out and out lies. More and more became aware of who was initially behind this plan and that this same person was providing much of the inaccurate and untrue information. This is when the tide began to change against Linda. Those who knew the truth were not interested in having her visit their churches to "minister" to others, knowing she was involved in trying to destroy a ministry, families and reputations. One claim that convinced many that she was out for revenge was her "abuse" claim. Anyone who knew the couple intimately, traveled with them, spent weeks at a time with them knew that Danny idolized Linda and that she "ruled the roost" so to speak as her way was the only way. Even those that didn't like Danny for one reason or another have laughed at the claim of abuse. Not only did he love her too much he never had an abusive character. Just wasn't him. Those kind of outlandish claims started turning the tide for many who knew better. As the claims, accusations and smearing of reputations of those that weren't even in the spotlight became more and more outlandish and unchristlike, the people that turned, knew they had turned correctly.
Now it seems that Pickle and Joy like several before them, have wore out their welcome in Linda's future plans. She has finally realized how many people have discovered that she has been far from silent but used others do the talking for her. This has been a blow to her reputation so naturally, those that have been her mouth pieces must be thrown under the bus while she regroups and recruits for plan B. Of course this leaves Mr. Pickle and Mr. Joy still in a peck of legal trouble for making lies public that were told to them, while Linda walks away. Clearly one must consider motives for her actions.
1. Does she think if she seperates herself from the duo that she will not be required to be deposed by the 3abn Lawyers?
2. Does she think if seperated from the duo that others will forget or not consider her long association with them and the repurcussions it has brought about for all concerned?
This next idea isn't a question and is MHO but I believe it 100%. Did I not put out a recent challenge to Linda stating that I was positive if she signed an agreement of no legal action against 3abn that they would make the evidence against her public?
Joy immediately responded she had new attorney's and he was positive they wouldn't allow it. The challenge was thrown out to her friends also to make sure they approached her with it. No response from her. Now, she doesn't want anything more to do with Joy, Pickle and those working with them. It has not "been good" for her ministry.
Coincidence? Or does the request for a signed agreement show her that 3abn is serious about meeting her demand of evidence if no legal action will be taken?
You decide.
Gregory is right, Sam. You are wrong.
I never received any communication from Linda Shelton till about December 11, 2006, after becoming involved in August. The information I had about Tommy and Danny\'s handling of the allegations against Tommy came from Walt, Dryden, and Riva, not Linda, and I wrote Danny about it before receiving any communication from Linda.
How did this all about Linda Shelton start on the internet?
How did we get from Barbara Kerr to Linda? It is by the leading of 3ABN posters. It seems to me that no matter what has happened, the blame goes to Linda. I, for one, wonder how she can get up and face the world with a smile.
Evidence is every where that Linda was condemned in the public arena. Linda has never made a bad statement about Danny except about his affair with Brenda.
Do I care if he committed Adultery? Only in that he has crucified Linda for 4 years with not one retort from Linda.
Do I care if Linda committed adultery? No. What I consider evil is the way 3ABN has abused Linda for something she did not do. I will never believe she committed adultery unless she says so!
Anything forthcoming against Linda, I will consider it to be fabricated and will not be able to believe it. It will be just more of the same. There is no proof; just hearsay from Brenda, who I believe was the other woman.
Danny should have announced that he and Linda had decided to divorce, period. But Danny had to make her the evil one instead of him for his infidelity. Now after 4 years of building a lie, it is supposed to be gospel. Not as far as I am concerned.
This is just another hijacking of another thread. It is so tiring. I am tired of all the evil surmising of the last 4 years. All being after the fact.
For so long we heard that Linda was "keeping silent", taking the "high road" and 3abn was trashing her. The above highlighted statement clearly shows the working relationship between Linda, Pickle, and Joy. Joy also mentions taking on the task of restoring what he believed to have been taken from her. In light of just these 2 statements, how can anyone continue to deny that so much of the faulty, twisted, and false information released by Pickle and Joy did, indeed, come from Linda? There was no "silence" and "taking the high road" going on. The exact opposite was taking place by someone who wanted to exact revenge on their ex husband and 3abn and were willing to use Pickle, Joy and anyone else that would play the part, while she remained the "silent" partner. As the plans kept changing, those that did not fit into the role she needed them to play were cast by the wayside and new gullible players were "picked up" to play the new roles.
While 3abn went about life as usual which means spreading the gospel 24/7, the ex vp has been totally caught up and active in eroding the reputations of Danny, Mollie, the 3abn board, the Shelton family, and anyone else caught in the cross fire. Anyone who believed that she was not behind this campaign was wearing huge blinders, ear plugs and using only a teeny tiny portion of their brain. All of those that have stood behind 3abn and "vouched" for the integrity of Gods ministry, were those that had spent time there, with Danny with Linda, with employees and had witnessed, first hand, how the campaign started, who started it, and why. People like Jim G, Doug B, Kenneth C. Garwin M, Owen Troy, Wintley P. and so many others knew the difference between truth and revenge. They knew the people, had first hand experience and watched the progression of the Doctor's entrance into the picture through counseling, the seperation and the divorce. It was no secret where Linda headed directly following the divorce. It was no secret to the insiders that for all the blame put on Danny getting a "quickie divorce" that Linda was the one who instigated it by making a threat that is too long to go into now. She knew then by forcing Danny to file it would make him look like the bad guy. The pattern was one set up after another but only those on the inside that knew Danny and the 3abn board personally, knew those patterns and knew the truth.
When the smear campaign first began, there was talk of putting out the "evidence" to stop the lies before they even got a good headstart. But after prayer, discussion and legal advice, they decided against it for several reasons. In hindsight I'm sure they never dreamed it would get to the point that it did, or they may have made a different decision.
As more and more people started to believe what they were reading about 3abn, there also was a growing, opposite camp of influential people, members of leadership, conference officials etc.. who were seeing more and more of who was behind this campaign and knowing themselves that many things being told were out and out lies. More and more became aware of who was initially behind this plan and that this same person was providing much of the inaccurate and untrue information. This is when the tide began to change against Linda. Those who knew the truth were not interested in having her visit their churches to "minister" to others, knowing she was involved in trying to destroy a ministry, families and reputations. One claim that convinced many that she was out for revenge was her "abuse" claim. Anyone who knew the couple intimately, traveled with them, spent weeks at a time with them knew that Danny idolized Linda and that she "ruled the roost" so to speak as her way was the only way. Even those that didn't like Danny for one reason or another have laughed at the claim of abuse. Not only did he love her too much he never had an abusive character. Just wasn't him. Those kind of outlandish claims started turning the tide for many who knew better. As the claims, accusations and smearing of reputations of those that weren't even in the spotlight became more and more outlandish and unchristlike, the people that turned, knew they had turned correctly.
Now it seems that Pickle and Joy like several before them, have wore out their welcome in Linda's future plans. She has finally realized how many people have discovered that she has been far from silent but used others do the talking for her. This has been a blow to her reputation so naturally, those that have been her mouth pieces must be thrown under the bus while she regroups and recruits for plan B. Of course this leaves Mr. Pickle and Mr. Joy still in a peck of legal trouble for making lies public that were told to them, while Linda walks away. Clearly one must consider motives for her actions.
1. Does she think if she seperates herself from the duo that she will not be required to be deposed by the 3abn Lawyers?
2. Does she think if seperated from the duo that others will forget or not consider her long association with them and the repurcussions it has brought about for all concerned?
This next idea isn't a question and is MHO but I believe it 100%. Did I not put out a recent challenge to Linda stating that I was positive if she signed an agreement of no legal action against 3abn that they would make the evidence against her public?
Joy immediately responded she had new attorney's and he was positive they wouldn't allow it. The challenge was thrown out to her friends also to make sure they approached her with it. No response from her. Now, she doesn't want anything more to do with Joy, Pickle and those working with them. It has not "been good" for her ministry.
Coincidence? Or does the request for a signed agreement show her that 3abn is serious about meeting her demand of evidence if no legal action will be taken?
You decide.
Most all tv shows are archived on the web. Do the research. It is all there.
Sorry you have become so deluded, Sam.
Well Artiste this is one time I just can’t let a pithy comment go unchallenged. I’ve never been picked to join a “side” in this mess and think there are issues in both camps.
What I am absolutely certain of is that Linda Shelton has been not only complicit but instrumental in the attacks on 3ABN and her ex husband. There are too many of her fingerprints, including private emails that have been shared to come to any other conclusion. I suspect this will be verified as various people get their deposition turns.
Has Danny Shelton had problems? You bet. I’m thinking there are going to be some surprises when the extent of Linda’s real activities comes to light. Sure would be nice to see this handled in private where it belongs.
ADMIN HAT ON
Fran is absolutely right about this thread going way off topic. Please all, let's remember forum rule #3 and keep our posts here to Barbara Kerr.
"3 - You also agree to stay within the topic of a particular topic or to start a new topic."
ADMIN HAT OFF
I arrived home from North Dakota a few days ago and opened up Advent Talk. Much to my dismay, I found all the "surmising" and "assuming" regarding the letter I wrote about Barbara. I am a retired Life Insurance agent and many years ago, my supervisor told me never to assume anything because those who do, are usually wrong and it makes everyone look bad. Plainly speaking, your assumptions are wrong.Jo Ann, I asked you a question in a Private Message on another Forum (BSDA) and rather than answering it privately there, you bring it up publically here. Why? What is your purpose? In God's time perhaps the truth about why Barbara was asked to leave Norway may come to light. It says much more about certain aspects of her character than a mother may choose to admit. Many mothers have a blind spot when it comes to the characters of their beloved child and are willing to defend that child no matter the circumstances.
For those who asked, I'll tell you why Barbara did not write the letter herself. She, like Linda, does not go on any forum any more, nor has she since she came home from Norway and tried to write. Reading all the "stuff" people wrote was just too upsetting for her and her health could not take it. Over the past year, I would go on BSDA and see that there were some people sincerely asking about her and I'd relay that on, letting her know she did have many friends genuinely concerned about her health and how she was doing.
We discussed how best to let those who love her know she was much better and we decided that I would be the one to write the letter. I posted it on BSDA and, (this is for you, Sister) I decided to also post it on Advent Talk (knowing many of her friends were also reading here) ~ THEN, I informed Barbara on the following day of what I had done. This was NOT about playing games, Sister. Barbara has never gone to Advent Talk and, as I said before, she also no longer visits BSDA.
Sorry Grammie T, Barbara won't be coming on this forum or any other. I am Barbara's mother and thank you for the apology. Like I said in the letter; God, in His own time, will reveal what He wants known. The purpose of my letter was to let those who wanted to know 'why' Barbara hadn't written sooner ~ the "Why" - and that she is doing fine. I also want to let you "naysayers" know that I keep in contact with Linda and talk to her on the phone, the last time being just two weeks ago. We see each other when our paths cross.
I want to thank those of you (Grandmad, Servant, Ian, Habanero, Fran and many others) for your kindness shown to Barbara and who have been appreciative for the update. For those who don't know, you may go to BSDA and open the Praise and Testmony thread where you will find Barbara's 'Love Letter From Norway'. To read her "Open Letter" explaining her involvement with 3ABN, click on 3ABN (Links and Resources) here on Advent Talk.
Barbara has the following statement by H.M.S. Richards, Sr. posted in her office and around her house so she can read it readily throughout the day. Perhaps everyone should read it at least once a day to keep focused on what is truly important in life!!Keep At Your Work
"The Lord has given to every man his work. It is his business to do it and the devil's business to hinder him if he can. So, surely as God has given you a work to do, Satan will try to hinder you. He may present other things more promising. He may allure you by worldly prospects. He may assult you with slander, torment you with false accusations, set you to work defending your character, employ pious persons to lie about you, editors to assail you, and excellent men to slander you. You may have Pilate and Herod, Annas and Caiaphas all combined against you, and Judas standing by ready to sell you for thirty pieces of silver; and you may wonder why all those things come to you. Can you not see that the whole thing is brought about through the craft of the devil to draw you off from your work and hinder your obedience to God?
Keep about your work. Do not flinch because the lion roars, do not stop to stone the devil's dogs; do not fool away your time chasing the devil's rabbits. Do your work. Let liars lie, let sectarians quarrel, let corporations resolve, let editors publish, let the devil do his worst; but see to it that nothing hinders you from fulfilling the work that God has given you.
He has not sent you to make money. He has not commanded you to get rich. He has never bidden you to defend your character. He has not set you at work to contradict falsehood which Satan and his servants may start to peddle. If you do these things, you will do nothing else; you will be at work for yourself and not for the Lord.
Keep about your work. Let your AIM be as steady as a star. Let the world brawl and bubble. You may be assaulted, wronged, insulted, slandered, wounded and rejected; you may be abused by foes, forsaken by friends, and despised and rejected of men, but see to it with steadfast determination, with unfaltering zeal, that you pursue the great purpose of your life and object of your being, until at last you can say, 'I have finished the work which Thou gavest me to do.' By: H.M.S. Richards, Sr., Founder of Voice of Prophecy.
Barbara is determined to be about her Lord's work. She is happy, content and full of joy. She loves people and is doing all she can to fulfill the covenant she made with God when she was dying of Crohn's Disease ~ that if He would spare her life, she would spend the rest of her life helping people to never get as sick as she was. God honored that prayer and is blessing her beyond measure. I am thankful I have such a Godly daughter who loves Jesus with all her heart!
I pray for God's blessings on all of you.
Jo Ann
Sister
[quote author=Gregory link=topic=698.msg10171#msg10171
By the way, The Boston area is a beautifu area. At the request of the General Conference I spent 6 days there in May. I had not visited Boston since about 1979. Congratulations on living in a nice area.
[quote author=Gregory link=topic=698.msg10171#msg10171
By the way, The Boston area is a beautifu area. At the request of the General Conference I spent 6 days there in May. I had not visited Boston since about 1979. Congratulations on living in a nice area.