Advent Talk

Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: Artiste on March 15, 2008, 07:12:58 PM

Title: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Artiste on March 15, 2008, 07:12:58 PM
It has been requested of Fran that she post some of her financial information, which she has done on BlackSDA.

The following section was preceded by her relating how she gradually began to have questions about the processes at 3ABN.

I began my research. God placed all this information in my lap. How could I not cry out! I was crushed. I loved 3ABN and I still do! I still want 3ABN to succeed! I just have not seen any evidence of change in financial actions. Danny has accused me several times of trying to destroy 3ABN. That is a LIE!

He is right, these documents are very damaging to Danny Shelton first and the actions of Danny Shelton through 3ABN. Does that make sense?

So we hear that Danny is not in Charge any more. That is not true. I will have to continue to talk finance at 3ABN until the time that transparency is visible.

I still have some of my original questions about what I have posted.

1...Why was $2.45 Million dollars not posted in 2000?

2...Why was $1.7+ million dollars not posted in 2001?

3...Why was over $14,000 of money that belonged to other ministries, NOT 3ABN'S, posted to 3ABN Income?

4...Why are they NOT USING GAAP?

5...Why has 3ABN been written up every years since 2000 by auditors about a problem with Valuing assets?

6...Hey more later!



STORY

Trust funds are such fun! If I were over the Trust fund, and people made me the one to say where it went; guess where it would go? To me or 3ABN? To me of course! 3ABN can have all those marked for 3ABN, but if they are assigned to me ... Hello!

Suppose a person does a trust fund for my organization. They die. They have named me as the one to decide what to do with it. I could say, don't stop those annuities, just change the recipients bank account. Would I put it in a bank account for me and my partner, or would I give the whole thing to my organization?

What about Petty Cash? Are my records in order. What happens if I take $6,000 and return with no change and say only $2,000 in receipts. What should an accountant do? Hey, it is short, they could add it to the W2 for me. How do I take care of that? Well, I surely don't want it on my W2! Instead what if I passed a new rule! No adding to any ones W2's. What happened to the say $4,000 that was missing? It got posted as an expense with NO SOURCE DOCUMENTS. Oops, did I make the right choice?

Suppose I did all of the above? Time passes and a state lawsuit does an audit and writes me up? Do I continue as always? I am a slow learner. I change nothing! Auditor for the succeeding years writes me up again! I decide to continue my activities concerning valuation of assets ( this includes trust funds. )

How do I get fast cash for my organization? It seems that I may have been hitting the bank too often. I decide to BORROW from that huge Trust Fund Account! Problem Solved! Then people started telling on me. I am desperate! What do I do? I have access to ubiquitous cash so I file a suit for some stupid reason to get people off my back for my financial dealings! However. there is this stupid lady that keeps talking about it. I can't have her in court because she know what I did. My world will collapse.

I decide to destroy her computer. I know her IP and all. I destroyed her computer several times. I even shut her broad band company down for 2 days! I believe the folks I hired to do this got over zealous and pinged continuously to get in to her computer. The BBC had to shut down because of all the pinging to her computer!

She changes her Internet provider and it was easier for me to get to her. I fried her computers! Gone is all that info against me! Oops, she is back with a vengeance. What do I do now? I will continue "All in the name of the Lord! Let us all pray for this poster, she is going to need all she can get!



Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Artiste on March 15, 2008, 07:17:33 PM
Quote, Fran:

I am thinking about revealing all of his eBay sellers.

Hey, by the way, WHO got all the proceeds of those  sales?
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Artiste on March 15, 2008, 07:19:53 PM
Quote, Fran:

Bob:

Subpoena the Dannyite list so we will know who they are. Turn abouts fair play. We have all their past posts to show just who is the intimidating ones. The belittle and slander us. They are false accusers from the get go! OK Folks take the ball back and let the truth be known. i am going to. I believe I will make an affidavit and tell the judge all about the IL property tax lawsuit. Then it will be shown what they are trying their best to cover up. eBay sounds like a good topic for thread in this 3ABN forum.
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Artiste on March 15, 2008, 07:21:02 PM
Quote, Fran:

I would like to ask that all who stand behind the investigation of Danny Shelton and 3ABN, please post a comment of your support for truth about everything, yes even the financial aspects.  
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Gailon Arthur Joy on March 15, 2008, 08:57:19 PM
Here, Here!!! I am right here, Fran. Believe me, I am right here!!!

Come on, people, stand and be counted!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Chrissie on March 16, 2008, 01:10:38 AM
Quote, Fran:

I would like to ask that all who stand behind the investigation of Danny Shelton and 3ABN, please post a comment of your support for truth about everything, yes even the financial aspects.  

It's way past time that EVERYTHING came out in the open. Yes, right to every cent and how it has been appropriated (or misappropriated). Stand up and be counted.[/b][/size]
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Ozzie on March 16, 2008, 01:40:33 AM
Quote, Fran:

I would like to ask that all who stand behind the investigation of Danny Shelton and 3ABN, please post a comment of your support for truth about everything, yes even the financial aspects.  

Surely, it's way past time that ALL is brought out into the open. If DS/3abn is innocent, as they claim, they should be mighty glad to have it all out there for all to see. Bring it on. Let us all stand for truth. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Daryl Fawcett on March 16, 2008, 06:18:11 AM
If the lawsuit against Joy & Pickle and the latest subpoenas to Bluehost regarding Advent Talk and Calvin regarding BSDA are to really bury the financial issue regarding Danny Shelton and 3ABN, then I hope that all the documentation of all this financially revealing data is safely stored in various ways, both electronically and on paper for future use.
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Artiste on March 16, 2008, 09:12:52 AM
If the lawsuit against Joy & Pickle and the latest subpoenas to Bluehost regarding Advent Talk and Calvin regarding BSDA are to really bury the financial issue regarding Danny Shelton and 3ABN, then I hope that all the documentation of all this financially revealing data is safely stored in various ways, both electronically and on paper for future use.

Not only that, I believe that Fran's safety itself should be considered.
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Daryl Fawcett on March 16, 2008, 03:19:46 PM
I think we all should be praying for Fran. :praying:
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Ozzie on March 16, 2008, 03:24:21 PM
If the lawsuit against Joy & Pickle and the latest subpoenas to Bluehost regarding Advent Talk and Calvin regarding BSDA are to really bury the financial issue regarding Danny Shelton and 3ABN, then I hope that all the documentation of all this financially revealing data is safely stored in various ways, both electronically and on paper for future use.

Not only that, I believe that Fran's safety itself should be considered.

To me, that is a major concern. Fran not only needs our prayers, but she needs protection. She cannot be left in all this by herself.
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Artiste on March 16, 2008, 03:29:25 PM
Quote, Fran:

By the way I also fear for my safety too!

I see this as the great controversy between Christ and Satan. I believe the truth is there and people believe the truth. I am for the truth. I am on the side of my creator.
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Daryl Fawcett on March 16, 2008, 03:30:23 PM
In case something does happen to Fran, which I pray doesn't happen, I am hoping Fran, either has already placed, or will soon place all that she has in the capable hands of another person who can continue to carry the torch.
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Artiste on March 16, 2008, 04:18:37 PM
Quote, Fran from the IL vs 3ABN Tax Lawsuit:

14 The financial report for 2000 contains additional concerns found by the independent auditors.

15 Applicant’s financial reports raise additional questions and concerns. For example, the unrecorded contribution revenue related to charitable gift annuity agreements were not recorded in conformance with generally accepted accounting principles. The “related party transactions” were acknowledged without identifying the parties.

The notes refer to “split interest agreements,” where applicant received the assets funding the trusts and applicant is to pay certain amounts for specified periods of time to the donors. There is nothing in the record to identify the donors or the assets. None of the trust agreements were supplied.
(Applicant’s Ex. Nos. 14, 15)


Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Artiste on March 16, 2008, 04:32:17 PM
Quote, Fran:

If everyone would read the Lawsuit of IL vs. 3ABN, they would find that Linda had NOTHING to do with finances. Danny was the the one that made ALL of the financial decisions, he signed the checks. He counted the cash. He possessed the ubiquitous credit card and he had access to the cash that was less when it left his hands! He had unlimited "Petty Cash".

Danny touching any cash is a NO-NO! The Chief Finacial Officer (CFO) should have forbid that action from ever taking place. It is proof of severe flaws in Cash Control Management. In fact the CFO and Treasurer should not touch cash either. They may supervise, but not touch until AFTER it is accurately counted, receipted and passed on for deposit. Cash received should always match the deposit slip! Always.

If it is not the same, a discrepancy report should be written to explain the problem. Names and signatures of all involved should be on the report naming everyone that touched the cash. Document every discrepancy and attach the original. Put a copy in a Cash Discrepancy file to be readily available to the auditors to review.

The buck stops with Danny, he is the boss of the CFO! Ignorance is no excuse when you have been a business dealing with cash for over 20 years! If you don't understand, it would behoove you to find out, to avoid going to jail.
 
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Artiste on March 16, 2008, 05:00:32 PM
Quote, Fran regarding the IL vs 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit:

In other words, they would not provide information about the agreements or the identity of the parties involved to the auditors. They were there, but not on the books! No wonder they would not identify who they were. Not only that, but the donors assets were not even listed. Are you beginning to see the big picture? (2000, 2001, 2002 IRS Form 990) (IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit)

In 2001, there were $ 2.4 Million found in Split Interest Agreements not posted. In 2002, $ 1.7 Million in Split Interest Agreements not posted. These are the amounts they found, but there is more they could not find. The assets were not found. Remember the interpretation of Split Interest Agreements involve TRUST FUND discrepancies. I wonder what was not found? (2000, 2001, 2002 IRS Form 990) (IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit)
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Artiste on March 16, 2008, 05:12:03 PM
Quote, Fran regarding the IL vs 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit:
 
These are the amounts they found, but there is more they could not find. The assets were not found.  Remember the interpretation of Split Interest Agreements involve TRUST FUND discrepancies.    I wonder what was not found? (2000, 2001, 2002 IRS Form 990) (IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit)


Fran has repeatedly brought up the Trust Funds problems and discrepancies!

Interestingly enough, Elder Jim Gilley, a couple of moths ago in his editorial letter at the beginning of the 3ABN mailout magazine, while eulogizing Danny Shelton, said something to the effect of, "And we're not going to borrow from Trust Funds anymore, are we?"

Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Chrissie on March 17, 2008, 12:41:23 AM
Quote, Fran regarding the IL vs 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit:
 
These are the amounts they found, but there is more they could not find. The assets were not found.  Remember the interpretation of Split Interest Agreements involve TRUST FUND discrepancies.    I wonder what was not found? (2000, 2001, 2002 IRS Form 990) (IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit)


Fran has repeatedly brought up the Trust Funds problems and discrepancies!

Interestingly enough, Elder Jim Gilley, a couple of moths ago in his editorial letter at the beginning of the 3ABN mailout magazine, while eulogizing Danny Shelton, said something to the effect of, "And we're not going to borrow from Trust Funds anymore, are we?"

Now, that is a really interesting comment isn't it?
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Johann on March 17, 2008, 01:13:04 PM
Quote, Fran regarding the IL vs 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit:
 
These are the amounts they found, but there is more they could not find. The assets were not found.  Remember the interpretation of Split Interest Agreements involve TRUST FUND discrepancies.    I wonder what was not found? (2000, 2001, 2002 IRS Form 990) (IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit)


Fran has repeatedly brought up the Trust Funds problems and discrepancies!

Interestingly enough, Elder Jim Gilley, a couple of moths ago in his editorial letter at the beginning of the 3ABN mailout magazine, while eulogizing Danny Shelton, said something to the effect of, "And we're not going to borrow from Trust Funds anymore, are we?"



Isn't that an admission something not quite as it should be is going to be stopped?
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Artiste on March 17, 2008, 03:19:41 PM
It sounds like not only an admission to me but also an attempt to trivialize the importance of how 3ABN trust funds are handled.

I wonder what would be the reaction of a person who had actually and trustingly participated in a trust fund arrangement with 3ABN.
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Artiste on March 17, 2008, 09:13:19 PM
Quote, Fran:

Did you ask if he or his conference received a commission? If these wills were for 3ABN, just how does this money stay in the conference in California. Is that because Leonard Westfall lives in California?

If the California Conference wanted to keep the money in their Conference, why weren't the trusts written to the Conference.

Yes, people should be able to choose where they put their money in trust to. From documented court documents and IRS Form 990's clearly states problems with Split Interest Agreements, and defines Split Interest Agreements as Trusts! My opinion. I do not believe I could write a trust amount for 3ABN without informing them of these documents since I am aware of them and so is Stan Jensen.

Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Artiste on March 17, 2008, 09:18:55 PM
Quote, Fran:

It seems to me that my contribution to this mess is documented facts from the IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit and the IRS 990’s that 3ABN files each year.

Where are those missing assets?

Where was that $2.4+ Million that someone just “forgot” to post? By golly that was trust funds, Right?
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Artiste on March 17, 2008, 09:30:11 PM
Quote, Fran and Bystander:

Bystander: You are constantly talking about generalized legal documents.  

Fran: Wrong! The documents are not “general” but “Concrete.” The court findings from the IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit and IRS Form 990’s are concrete legal documents.

Bystander: Not necessarily 3ABN's documents.  

Fran: Are you stating publicly that 3ABN’s documents do not match those legal documents? Oop’s! That is scary, isn’t it!

Bystander: You are extremely misleading when you say "what if you had purchased assets and followed them. " That plants a huge ugly seed in people's mind.  

Fran: Well, rest easy. I did purchase some assets! Yep; got receipts too! I even have one Tax Deductible Receipt for one of my my purchases. It states I donated money to 3ABN. It also says I received no goods for that donation ~ I'm sorry, for that purchase. Don’t worry; I was smart enough not to claim that tax deduction. I would suggest that you are correct about my comment planting “Hugh Ugly Seeds” in people’s minds. Only now they are NOT seeds. They are facts.

Bystander: For me and many others listening to the credentials of the chief financial officer on the 3ABN live a week ago is enough for me. He worked for years for the Waterhouse investing firm, one of the biggest in the world, as well as several other esteemed financial institutions. By reports from those who know him personally, he is viewed as a wonderful and sincere Christian with the utmost integrity. Those that know him and his family closely say he would never ever do anything dishonest or underhanded in any way.

Fran: Let me see; was that his signature on that fraudulent receipt I received? I will check and let you know.

 
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Ozzie on March 17, 2008, 09:57:05 PM
Quote, Fran:

By the way I also fear for my safety too!

I see this as the great controversy between Christ and Satan. I believe the truth is there and people believe the truth. I am for the truth. I am on the side of my creator.


Indeed, that is so true Artiste. Otherwise, this would not be an issue.
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Artiste on March 17, 2008, 10:04:15 PM
I agree, Ozzie.

Also, interesting conversation above between Fran and Bystander.  Was it conclusively proven by IP address that Bystander was Danny Shelton on BlackSDA?
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Ozzie on March 18, 2008, 01:53:19 AM
I agree, Ozzie.

Also, interesting conversation above between Fran and Bystander.  Was it conclusively proven by IP address that Bystander was Danny Shelton on BlackSDA?

I have thought and rethought about this before posting, and I don't know if it was proven conclusively or not that Bystander was DS, as I don't have access to IP addresses, but every other indication to me, led me to believe that it was no other than DS himself. He's had a couple of other makeovers since those days also, in my opinion. It's no wonder that Fran has felt so unsafe because of her knowledge of accounting methods at 3abn and her integrity with confronting those involved, with the straight testimony. :caution:
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Snoopy on March 26, 2008, 12:32:07 PM

Has anyone heard from Fran lately?  I haven't seen her here.

To me, that is a major concern. Fran not only needs our prayers, but she needs protection. She cannot be left in all this by herself.
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Chrissie on March 26, 2008, 01:34:51 PM

Has anyone heard from Fran lately?  I haven't seen her here.


No. I haven't. I hope that someone is keeping in contact with her and that we all have her on our prayer lists?  :praying:
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Johann on March 26, 2008, 03:07:49 PM

Has anyone heard from Fran lately?  I haven't seen her here.


No. I haven't. I hope that someone is keeping in contact with her and that we all have her on our prayer lists?  :praying:

I think she will be posting here before long.

=======

Edited in order to more easily distinguish between the quote of posts and the original post here. - Daryl :)
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Fran on March 26, 2008, 04:27:55 PM
Hey!  I am here.  All is well.

Thanks for all the prayers.  A special thanks to you Johann.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: judibug61 on March 26, 2008, 04:56:39 PM
So good to see you Fran......we have missed you.....and we are so glad all is well.......................welcome back....
lotza prayers...............
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Chrissie on March 26, 2008, 09:43:00 PM
Hey!  I am here.  All is well.

Thanks for all the prayers.  A special thanks to you Johann.   :thumbsup:

Take care Fran. We're praying for you.  :praying:
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Johann on March 26, 2008, 11:45:44 PM
# Acts 19:40
For we are in danger of being called in question for today’s uproar, there being no reason which we may give to account for this disorderly gathering.
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: reader on April 26, 2008, 11:58:30 PM
I surely would like the truth to come out sooner than later so that things could be cleaned up. We could be doing many other things that the Lord would like us to do. 
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Gailon Arthur Joy on April 27, 2008, 11:15:43 AM
I surely would like the truth to come out sooner than later so that things could be cleaned up. We could be doing many other things that the Lord would like us to do. 

And what makes you think it will end with 3ABN? Do you not realize we have more crises' than we have trouble shooters? More "little problems" than we can survive without the direct intervention of the Lord...and that is coming.

The most recent Publication for Members of Church Accountability covers nearly thirty years of incredible messes that we have glossed over but which still come back to haunt us as we have not dealt with the underlying problems. It is titled
"WHO WATCHES,  WHO CARES".

It is an excellent expose' of the inner workings of the church and it's affiliates. If you want to understand the issues and how the system failed you, the stockholders in the pews, you will aquire and read this analysis. Certainly every Pastor, administrator and denominational leader should become familiar with the issues and the solutions.

It should  be a text book for every business class and every pastoral and denominational leadership candidate.

Gailon Arthur Joy
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Enoch on January 27, 2012, 04:34:34 PM
BlackSDA has been gone for some time now. Did it have anything to do with any litigation involving 3ABN?
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: princessdi on January 28, 2012, 11:02:10 PM
No, it lasted far past that....it just could not stand up to Facebook!  LOL!!  Actually we are all, well mostly, there together on a group page ..........Black SDA
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Johann on January 29, 2012, 03:12:43 AM
No, it lasted far past that....it just could not stand up to Facebook!  LOL!!  Actually we are all, well mostly, there together on a group page ..........Black SDA

Are you suggesting AT move over to FaceBook? That would probably be too open?
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: Daryl Fawcett on February 06, 2012, 04:23:39 AM
I wouldn't move over, however, you could also start up an Advent Talk group over there and continue with this one here.
Title: Re: Posts by Fran on BlackSDA Regarding Financial Issues
Post by: princessdi on February 06, 2012, 04:38:59 PM
Oh no.........but I guess they could if they wanted.   That was just for individuals who might be interested.

 
[Are you suggesting AT move over to FaceBook? That would probably be too open?