Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: Bob Pickle on September 17, 2010, 08:05:45 AM
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Whoever wrote up the press release for the Salt Lake Tribune (http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/lifestyle/50277033-80/sept-church-lake-salt.html.csp) should be kindly corrected. 3ABN is not the denomination's TV station. It is an independent ministry that has said in court that it and its message is not affiliated with any denomination or church.
HopeTV is the denomination's TV network, not 3ABN.
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This must be a true statement but I do not want to believe it. Hope the churches denomination's TV station!! :help: Is this the Australion version or the American. I am feeling much better not watching it. It goes against the first foundation's doctrine of which I firmly believe. and should I be surprised? California's liberal and Aussie versions. Lady Thorpe is a complete turnoff. Maybe her husband could do better. I am in much better frame of mind not watching all the new age and new foundation input with their justifications and talk shows of diverse opinions.
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Let us give our new GC President time to try to bring about whatever changes needs to be changed.
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This must be a true statement but I do not want to believe it. Hope the churches denomination's TV station!! :help: Is this the Australion version or the American. I am feeling much better not watching it. It goes against the first foundation's doctrine of which I firmly believe. and should I be surprised? California's liberal and Aussie versions. Lady Thorpe is a complete turnoff. Maybe her husband could do better. I am in much better frame of mind not watching all the new age and new foundation input with their justifications and talk shows of diverse opinions.
You gotta be joking Tinka? :dunno:
Are you really as anti-Aussie as you are sounding here? :australia:
I guess we'll never get rid of racism from our Church either, while attitudes like this prevail. I feel sad about that. :'(
I believe that Jesus would feel the same. :help: :wave:
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Thanks for sticking up for the Aussies, Di :).
Are all Aussies tarred with the same brush, Tinka?
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I wonder. Within the Seventh-da Adventist Church the Aussies have been regarded as being rather conservative. You just can't satisfy everybody.
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This must be a true statement but I do not want to believe it. Hope the churches denomination's TV station!! :help: Is this the Australion version or the American. I am feeling much better not watching it. It goes against the first foundation's doctrine of which I firmly believe. and should I be surprised? California's liberal and Aussie versions. Lady Thorpe is a complete turnoff. Maybe her husband could do better. I am in much better frame of mind not watching all the new age and new foundation input with their justifications and talk shows of diverse opinions.
You gotta be joking Tinka? :dunno:
Are you really as anti-Aussie as you are sounding here? :australia:
I guess we'll never get rid of racism from our Church either, while attitudes like this prevail. I feel sad about that. :'(
I believe that Jesus would feel the same. :help: :wave:
If you want to put in "change" from our true foundation, you might want to call me a racist on those terms. but not against race. It it that hard to make a point for the understanding of actions against the SP? I find that California is very liberal and it shows beyond --anything that I would be interested in watching and even in EGW day, the Aussie too has (meaning country, not every individuals) have leaned to their own way instead of first foundations. Cannot you see what I see? I have stated many times. Again, with religion people decide it to their own taste instead of being led by SP holding up the Biblical standard. To each his own likings is plain. Nothing I said here is against the race of Aussie as again you all jumped to your own conclusions of points made only to the "foundational change to liberalism". I don't believe in SDA portraying and displaying the jewelry, mad hair displays, jiving, jumping, sexy dress, clapping and a dancing. I have seen all on "Hope" and mostly I hear the Aussie lingo so where can you deny this and my option of not appreciating and associating this with our SDA church. I am not into any new age junk and feel very stable in not changing into this while most find the excuse to do it. Especially in the music end of things is another. Oh, and I have nothing against accents either.
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I'm a`proud redneck... Does that make me a racist too?
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Thinking of what has come out of Australia....Bob Brinsmead, Dr Desmond Ford, Francis D Nicholl, W Johnsson recent Review editor, the Standish brothers....
Some of those would have diametrically opposed ideologies.
Like most other areas, there are the ultraconservatives, the radicals and most members somewhere in between in
this country. Some of what is considered normal and noncontroversial here is not always accepted elsewhere, thinking in particular of the wearing of wedding rings, women wearing trousers to church - I am sure there are other minors in which we could choose to major.
And now I guess I should let the original topic resume...
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In the non-salvational matters of personal taste, such as clothing, hair and music, people often judge that their own preference is God's mandate upon the world, and that tends to become the focus of how they judge whether or not a person is good or bad. They create God in their own image.
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Did you hear the sermon last night on Health, dress, and Christlike? He even brought the smell of a Christian. I was right proud of the foundational truth. We can't look like something bad and be something else as signals are all crossed. I am talking about how SDA of examples should be and not newcomers just coming in for their curiosity of first interests. and Wintley stressed no wine, absolutely no reason no justifications of reports just plain- no wine that grape juice does the same thing. His sermon was titled the "last man to let you down"
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I'm a`proud redneck... Does that make me a racist too?
horsethief, you remind me of a friend I had in the West Frankfort church. He had no problem publically identifying himself as Benton poor white trailer trash. Does that make him a racist, too?
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A redneck is not someone who's necessarily white and southern. Just someone who loves their freedom and independence and isn't afraid to fight for it...
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In the non-salvational matters of personal taste, such as clothing, hair and music, people often judge that their own preference is God's mandate upon the world, and that tends to become the focus of how they judge whether or not a person is good or bad. They create God in their own image.
:amen:and :amen:
I briefly read another post of Tinka's yesterday where she referred to 'hussies' and had to laugh to myself. In all that she wrote, that would make me a 70 year old 'hussie', as I go against all that she holds sacred as representing the SDA Church (in her part of the world) :hot:
It would give my kids a laugh - those who think of their mother as a straitlaced (conservative) SDA who needs to update her ideas ;D Just can't please anyone, it seems :scratch:
Now, back to original programming. :thumbsup:
Are you fair dinkum in changing from 'Hope' to 3ABN? :help: An accidental slip of the arthritic fingers on the remote control brought up a picture of DLS the other day and it made me feel quite ill. A male voice in the background quickly told me to get that rubbish off there "Can't stand that sleaze" and the male concerned knows nothing of what has been going on here or on other websites, or even in the 3ABN Camp. A very discerning person, I thought. :puppykisses:
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Whoever wrote up the press release for the Salt Lake Tribune (http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/lifestyle/50277033-80/sept-church-lake-salt.html.csp) should be kindly corrected. 3ABN is not the denomination's TV station. It is an independent ministry that has said in court that it and its message is not affiliated with any denomination or church.
HopeTV is the denomination's TV network, not 3ABN.
And... people still need to be reminded of that, as I hear people refer to 3ABN as IF it is the appointed representative of the SDA Church. HOPE IS the denomination's TV network (Thanks God). NOT 3abn. :TY:
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How can 3ABN consider themselves the denominations TV network when the 3ABN leadership condones child molestation and divorce and remarriage without Biblical grounds?
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Tinka - what do you have against "Lady Thorpe"? She seems like a perfectly lovely christian lady to me. If Hope doesn't float you boat then you should watch something else or nothing at all but your criticism of them seems very harsh. I personally like what I have seen on Hope. Far out does 3ABM.
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Did you hear the sermon last night on Health, dress, and Christlike? He even brought the smell of a Christian. I was right proud of the foundational truth. We can't look like something bad and be something else as signals are all crossed. I am talking about how SDA of examples should be and not newcomers just coming in for their curiosity of first interests. and Wintley stressed no wine, absolutely no reason no justifications of reports just plain- no wine that grape juice does the same thing. His sermon was titled the "last man to let you down"
Sorry I miss stated, I meant to say the sermon of CA Murray.
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Tinka - what do you have against "Lady Thorpe"? She seems like a perfectly lovely christian lady to me. If Hope doesn't float you boat then you should watch something else or nothing at all but your criticism of them seems very harsh. I personally like what I have seen on Hope. Far out does 3ABM.
Well Grat, Guess the down to earth, calming effect an very humble actions of Linda has spoiled me as a comparison for a natural on tv with no fakeness. It is actually the programming and what they display with their choice of individuals that love to display what our foundation beliefs do not give sanction to. My concern is why do they do that when there is a whole world to look on to if they do it then why do I give it up at baptism sort of thing but then again they may have "changed" too. I think what Mrs. Thorpe needs is some training in appearances for TV. Who is in charge of guest appearances? Don't want to go any further and if she is in charge --her and her husband then they are responsible for the programming. I do see that they have some outside programming that is used by some of our evangelists and that is pretty much the same but the rest of pleasing the public sort of thing and copying other religions and their programming is not the best. Adventists should be the best and present the best of our faith and they don't do it. I said many times on here what I saw in very distastefull terms because of distasteful programing. I have not missed it a bit. In fact I don't even like to comment about it as I don't even see it doing any good as they will do what they want for their own likings. I like to watch where I can concentrate on learing from Biblical and SP. not talk shows, not musical jazz, jive and whatever floats and their constant display of jewelry that presents problems for and stumbling blocks for newcomers. I did like their Revelation program and the learning part. But as a whole I see the flaw of Jewelry displayed in the sight of God which I know maybe just one thing but one thing is all it takes to present wrongly with each individual that thinks it is now justification to do it. We don't need it, We won't take it with us but what we will take is not good if we were a stumbling bloc to God's message. Hmmmm. I sure would'nt want that on my record added. I know what scripture says no matter what page after page after page of comments by GC that was posted on here to the wearing of the gold.
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That, Tinka, is how how good SDAs get sucked in and blinded. You heard the words you wanted to hear and they made you right proud. It is painfully common for organizations and leaders who focus on humble appearance and historic moral values in their words and what they encourage others to follow, to be some of the most eggregious perpetrators of evil. I am not saying that Clement Murray is evil, but there is certainly room to question who and what he represents. Would you agree that the jewellry on Hope is less of a stumbling block than the perpetual scandal of 3ABN, even though it eschews jewellry and teaches historic Adventist values?
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Your right in some aspects but one must conclude the actions also. You can be fooled sometimes I agree but not all the time. I was fooled for quite sometime with 3abn until the actions came into view. When that happens you are then shown discernment of choice and go from there. You do not hide it, join it or condone it as you jump up and start hollering about it like others did. They got a lot of the right attributes but the actions don't match when it comes to documents, legal motions, money hidding, divorces, molestations, misuse of funds and now :ROFL: possible fornications again :ROFL:. Hmmm. :ROFL: No matter what Murry smells like he gave all the right words ....I should have said. Could'nt tell the smell. The right words were for people seeking truth. and can't go against....what he said. I must say I do like the excellent nature photography and quite music that goes with it and it does give the right affects for wonderful rest and I do watch seminars over and over. Never gets old with me cause I always gain something. I do click off quite often.
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What value does Clement Murray have as a minister when he lacks the strength of character to point out to his employer that he was wrong in dumping his wife for a younger woman?
What good is he as a man when he knows that his employer has attempted to subvert justice in the case of child molestation?
No sermon can mask this man's cowardice to confronting evil.
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I humbly agree, It is just so sad and I hope for not long ones can be replaced. I do see some young upcoming replacements that I know personally that would be well with these souls to be in charge. Believe me they can handle it.
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What value does Clement Murray have as a minister when he lacks the strength of character to point out to his employer that he was wrong in dumping his wife for a younger woman?
What good is he as a man when he knows that his employer has attempted to subvert justice in the case of child molestation?
No sermon can mask this man's cowardice to confronting evil.
Cowardice may not be exactly the right word.
Has C. A. ever been divorced?
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If Clement Murray was a man of character, then he would have had the courage to tell Danny Shelton that it is WRONG to try to cover up very serious criminal allegations. He would have let him know that he is in ERROR to dump his wife for a younger woman. He obviously hasn't because he is still at 3ABN.
I call that being a COWARD...
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Well, Friday night they were both on the talk program, can't remember the name maybe 3ABN Today, and they were having a love fest. Danny was telling CA how much he liked and admired him and CA said about the same thing back. They both liked each others singing also. I was interested in seeing what else they had to say but my mom said Turn It so I did. It's her television.
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When were Clement and Irma married?
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I have a couple of questions: I take it that SDA's do not believe in wearing jewely of any kind,including wedding rings, correct??
Do you believe in women wearing makeup?
What scriptures do you base this on for each one?
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Mrst53,
Look back in past posts and for a thread that states the wearing of the wedding ring and on there will be all the quotes of Bible brought on by me and others for and against and then you will see great lengths of why the SDA went to the new "justifications" why they should wear it but the foundational doctrine of SDA is not the wearing of any gold, jewelry, and if you want look to the story when they built the golden calf from all their gold while Moses was in the mountain getting the 10 commandments you will see from that day what God commanded. I don't look for any other way to disregard that while others will come out and deny this has any merit.
As far as make up goes, I believe you can use it without anyone knowing you use it. You just cover your flaws and brown spots the best you can. But actually I only did that once a week to look my best at church but only and sometimes when I did not feel good and take care naturally the rest of week, but your skin stays very nice in old age if you don't do the coffee, smoke or had a lot of medication. I really like the natural, clean, polished look that skin gets from healty living. Soft water is also the best for skin.and a little olive oil.
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I have a couple of questions: I take it that SDA's do not believe in wearing jewely of any kind,including wedding rings, correct??
Do you believe in women wearing makeup?
What scriptures do you base this on for each one?
Depends on which Adventist you might ask. Many wear wedding rings, many Adventist women wear makeup. Some say that those who do are not "real" Adventists. The principles, in my opinion, are modesty and stewardship. How those principles are applied varies with the person.
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There are Adventists who are similar to the Amish in that they tend to feel that the only true religion would have to reflect the social and visual aspects of life during the time in which the religion was invented. We respect their views, smile, and go on with life. Anyone who would like to make divine dogma out of their personal taste is very capable of using scripture to prove their points. Having grown up among such people I can see their point, but learned very early to beware of people who make clothing, jewelry, makeup and food the points on which they judge everyone else as good or bad. Jesus. Never once did that. Are we better than him? I dont think so. He didn't attacj people for their outward appearance, so what give us the right to?
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Right some do this but in all if you follow simplicity, and choose to be Christlike it automatically comes this way because it is no longer necessity for "vanity". Vanity will get you nowhere you will shun the very best of it. Vanity will not get you into the gates. Vanity if bigger then you think that harbours unseen sin. Some do not like to take the chance of this to obstain public opinions and different lifestyles. The memonites, amish take this seriously and so should we.
If you wear a gold or silver ring what is the difference of wearing it on your toes, your nose, your ears, your skin as skin is skin anywhere you see it. Are you following the tradition of men??? Then if you have justifyed that then ....why not? It's beauty, it's costly, and it's vanity with no excuses. why not use it to have beauty, and forget the rest as we are most beautiful with it. What an excuse for a whole denomination to put into the church manual to go against what is plain, clear and what God has said in his scripture. This change can now all be seen on "Hope" channel. so I do consider this to be a true stumbling block! and some choose to do this but I would not take the chance...why because I do think jewelry is pretty. Some think that allagator meat is good too. One thing for sure one might take note of the dress of Jesus. didn't see any rings on fingers or read about any on Jesus. Why not if there is nothing wrong with it. Sentamentalism, forget it. It's your own thing again. In his time He Only will give out a crown of jewels as we throw them back as his feet to show our love more for Him instead of worthless stones.
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So there is NO real preaching against wearing jewelry or makeup now?
I grew up in Rev Jennings Wood's Church, so of course, it was influenced by Gail Wood and the SDA church. She wore no wedding ring and no makeup and she preached against it. Biblically, she could not back it up(New Testament), so eventually after much prayer, I decided it was ok for me to wear some modest jewelry.They did wear NICE watches and I thought that was hypocritical, since a plain watch would do just fine.....
I felt when I got married, I wanted a wedding ring, so other men, would know that I was married and OFF Limits.. :ROFL:
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So there is NO real preaching against wearing jewelry or makeup now?
There still is preaching on the topic today.
I grew up in Rev Jennings Wood's Church, so of course, it was influenced by Gail Wood and the SDA church.
What connection do the Woods have with the Adventist Church? Was she an Adventist at one time?
I felt when I got married, I wanted a wedding ring, so other men, would know that I was married and OFF Limits..
I have no idea how prevalent the idea is, but one fellow told me that in his wild days he looked for the women that wore wedding rings. That way if she got pregnant, it would be assumed that her husband was the father, not him.
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I look for wedding rings so I will know who not to show interest in, and have had a few embarassing times when I found out the hard way because there wan't a ring. I have also heard of men and women who look for married people... weird.
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Murielago,
OH now, so you are a single guy, careful I might have to fix you up with a beautiful girl. Could you be late thirties, or early forties? or late forties or maybe you really are taken by now. ;)
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It always made me wonder when we could wear a pin on a dress or coat but not on a chain around the neck. We also wouldn't spend money on jewelry but could drive up to the church in a Mercedees (just an example). I personally think it is something that we got from the Puritans and held onto for dear life with no real biblical proof. I have personally never seen a picture of Jesus when he was on this earth so I don't know what he wore. The bible says things about men having long hair and we haven't held on to that like the Amish have. We have a story in our family of a grandmother who bobbed her hair when she was in academy. In order for her to be able to go back to school she pulled it back and put a fake hair bun to cover it. She worked in the kitchen and one of the boys snapped a towel at her and hit the bun. He thought he had caused her hair to fall off. Not sure of the outcome when they found out about her hair but she was one of the most kindly, Christian women I have ever met.
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Praise God!!!, not at my church! As you said, there is no biblical support, it is bascially a corporate policy. I pay it no mind. Never had a problem being identified as a christian.
So there is NO real preaching against wearing jewelry or makeup now?
I grew up in Rev Jennings Wood's Church, so of course, it was influenced by Gail Wood and the SDA church. She wore no wedding ring and no makeup and she preached against it. Biblically, she could not back it up(New Testament), so eventually after much prayer, I decided it was ok for me to wear some modest jewelry.They did wear NICE watches and I thought that was hypocritical, since a plain watch would do just fine.....
I felt when I got married, I wanted a wedding ring, so other men, would know that I was married and OFF Limits.. :ROFL:
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There have been an awful lot of folks of many faiths who believed that there was biblical support for fallen mortals abstaining from needless adornment.
Did John Wesley get his views on the subject from the Puritans?
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I don't know where he got it from, and I dont' care. I was born and raised SDA, and have yet to get credible biblical support fo this policy.
There have been an awful lot of folks of many faiths who believed that there was biblical support for fallen mortals abstaining from needless adornment.
Did John Wesley get his views on the subject from the Puritans?
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Bob,
Gail Wood, was raised a very strict SDA before converting to Church of God. Her father was a Adventist minister. I was raised under JB Wood and Gail Wood at the Dunn Loring Church as a teenager. It was not a pleasant time, I can tell you. :ROFL: Her daughter, Loretta and I were the same age.
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Why do you feel that Peter and Paul's instruction in the NT does not constitute credible biblical support?
I don't know where he got it from, and I dont' care. I was born and raised SDA, and have yet to get credible biblical support fo this policy.
There have been an awful lot of folks of many faiths who believed that there was biblical support for fallen mortals abstaining from needless adornment.
Did John Wesley get his views on the subject from the Puritans?
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Bob,
Gail Wood, was raised a very strict SDA before converting to Church of God. Her father was a Adventist minister. I was raised under JB Wood and Gail Wood at the Dunn Loring Church as a teenager. It was not a pleasant time, I can tell you. :ROFL: Her daughter, Loretta and I were the same age.
Where was her father a minister? Do you know his name? Would there be any connections there that would explain why the Woods were friends of Tommy even though Virginia is a long way from Illinois? Did either of the Woods know the Sheltons going way back?
I'm just curious.
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There are Adventists who are similar to the Amish in that they tend to feel that the only true religion would have to reflect the social and visual aspects of life during the time in which the religion was invented. We respect their views, smile, and go on with life. Anyone who would like to make divine dogma out of their personal taste is very capable of using scripture to prove their points. Having grown up among such people I can see their point, but learned very early to beware of people who make clothing, jewelry, makeup and food the points on which they judge everyone else as good or bad. Jesus. Never once did that. Are we better than him? I dont think so. He didn't attacj people for their outward appearance, so what give us the right to?
Well said!!
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Right some do this but in all if you follow simplicity, and choose to be Christlike it automatically comes this way because it is no longer necessity for "vanity". Vanity will get you nowhere you will shun the very best of it. Vanity will not get you into the gates. Vanity if bigger then you think that harbours unseen sin. Some do not like to take the chance of this to obstain public opinions and different lifestyles. The memonites, amish take this seriously and so should we.
If you wear a gold or silver ring what is the difference of wearing it on your toes, your nose, your ears, your skin as skin is skin anywhere you see it. Are you following the tradition of men??? Then if you have justifyed that then ....why not? It's beauty, it's costly, and it's vanity with no excuses. why not use it to have beauty, and forget the rest as we are most beautiful with it. What an excuse for a whole denomination to put into the church manual to go against what is plain, clear and what God has said in his scripture. This change can now all be seen on "Hope" channel. so I do consider this to be a true stumbling block! and some choose to do this but I would not take the chance...why because I do think jewelry is pretty. Some think that allagator meat is good too. One thing for sure one might take note of the dress of Jesus. didn't see any rings on fingers or read about any on Jesus. Why not if there is nothing wrong with it. Sentamentalism, forget it. It's your own thing again. In his time He Only will give out a crown of jewels as we throw them back as his feet to show our love more for Him instead of worthless stones.
tinka,
What do you think about men wearing neckties?
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Right some do this but in all if you follow simplicity, and choose to be Christlike it automatically comes this way because it is no longer necessity for "vanity". Vanity will get you nowhere you will shun the very best of it. Vanity will not get you into the gates. Vanity if bigger then you think that harbours unseen sin. Some do not like to take the chance of this to obstain public opinions and different lifestyles. The memonites, amish take this seriously and so should we.
If you wear a gold or silver ring what is the difference of wearing it on your toes, your nose, your ears, your skin as skin is skin anywhere you see it. Are you following the tradition of men??? Then if you have justifyed that then ....why not? It's beauty, it's costly, and it's vanity with no excuses. why not use it to have beauty, and forget the rest as we are most beautiful with it. What an excuse for a whole denomination to put into the church manual to go against what is plain, clear and what God has said in his scripture. This change can now all be seen on "Hope" channel. so I do consider this to be a true stumbling block! and some choose to do this but I would not take the chance...why because I do think jewelry is pretty. Some think that allagator meat is good too. One thing for sure one might take note of the dress of Jesus. didn't see any rings on fingers or read about any on Jesus. Why not if there is nothing wrong with it. Sentamentalism, forget it. It's your own thing again. In his time He Only will give out a crown of jewels as we throw them back as his feet to show our love more for Him instead of worthless stones.
tinka,
What do you think about men wearing neckties?
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And what about men who wear neckties with expensive pins?
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Right some do this but in all if you follow simplicity, and choose to be Christlike it automatically comes this way because it is no longer necessity for "vanity". Vanity will get you nowhere you will shun the very best of it. Vanity will not get you into the gates. Vanity if bigger then you think that harbours unseen sin. Some do not like to take the chance of this to obstain public opinions and different lifestyles. The Mennonites, Amish take this seriously and so should we.
If you wear a gold or silver ring what is the difference of wearing it on your toes, your nose, your ears, your skin as skin is skin anywhere you see it. Are you following the tradition of men??? Then if you have justified that then ....why not? It's beauty, it's costly, and it's vanity with no excuses. why not use it to have beauty, and forget the rest as we are most beautiful with it. What an excuse for a whole denomination to put into the church manual to go against what is plain, clear and what God has said in his scripture. This change can now all be seen on "Hope" channel. so I do consider this to be a true stumbling block! and some choose to do this but I would not take the chance...why because I do think jewelry is pretty. Some think that alligator meat is good too. One thing for sure one might take note of the dress of Jesus. didn't see any rings on fingers or read about any on Jesus. Why not if there is nothing wrong with it. Sentimentalism, forget it. It's your own thing again. In his time He Only will give out a crown of jewels as we throw them back as his feet to show our love more for Him instead of worthless stones.
tinka,
What do you think about men wearing neckties?
[/qu
And what about men who wear neckties with expensive pins?
Snoopy and Emma
We have been instructed not to make spectacles of our selves in dressing different in society to bring attention to our selves. That we must stay in the realm of exceptable dress from the era we live in.
For men there also was changes from ties and bows from different eras. The one exceptable is what all wear today and ties are common to be known as dress for suits and ties. No, an expensive pin in the tie is not a necessity but again a vanity thing. a pin to hold down the tie sometimes is necessity for some men. like a jeweled watch. but yet a watch is of necessity so be modest. Jewels are vanity to show you can afford them. Should you be all jeweled up when others you are around do not have even enough food to eat?? Does that create a feeling in the less fortunate when their necessities can't be met? Are you a stumbling block to cause them feelings of want from you??
The Amish make money from their spectacle. The Mennonite's dress in very simplicity of which I like totally common. The woman never wear pants and very feminine clean and neat with no mad hair do s . Most of them are very wealthy and do not wear it on their sleeve and they help also their own from great stewardship that is visible. Somehow, what in the world happened to us??? as we look most worldly with latest styles of whatever. Not class, but syles we choose of mostly sexuality look of mostly we all should hide instead of attention getting. :help:
I have always like suspenders on men under jackets and I do not know why but then again, we have some that use the suspenders without jackets that they then present a whole different view of the fanatical suspender group that no shaving accompanies this style of 1800's and not of this era. and then a spectale is observed. Dress where no one notices strangeness. We have to discern, neatness, common effect and quit the "character stuff".
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Because those instructions notwithstanding, the church cannot make a strong case, and have had to back down from their official stance. Nobody has any trouble making a case for the biblical Sabbath, OT or NT. It should be the same.
It is a corporate policy to dictate modest dress, mostly amongst women. It doesn't even include men. It is also meant to make visible the change that should come from inside out, before the inner change has begun, or I should say whether or not the inner change has occurred. For the most part this has produced quite a few palin looking mean spirited, self righteous church folk, not even christians. So it doesn't work.
Those are only a few issues I see. Plus, as I said, I have never, ever had a problem being identified as a christian, where ever I go. That alone is good enough for me.
Why do you feel that Peter and Paul's instruction in the NT does not constitute credible biblical support?
I don't know where he got it from, and I dont' care. I was born and raised SDA, and have yet to get credible biblical support fo this policy.
There have been an awful lot of folks of many faiths who believed that there was biblical support for fallen mortals abstaining from needless adornment.
Did John Wesley get his views on the subject from the Puritans?
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You can tell a Mennonite woman from any direction. All the dresses are the same style and they don't cut their hair. At some age the girls hair goes into a cap on the back of the neck, all the same style. It is not up to date or even half modern. They stand out. One persons simplicity might be anothers worldly look. And not all jewlery is expensive. (I don't wear it myself as I don't want to be a stumbling block for someone else, but don't judge someone else if that is their choice.) How far do you take the simplicity thing. You can tell the haves from the have nots by more than jewlery. Do they envy my house,clothes, car etc. Do I live like a pauper so no one else feels bad? (By the way, no one would want my car. It runs but would not be the envy of anyone!!) Just my two cents worth.
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When I was a small boy growing up Adventist but in a Lutherans society I saw the gowns the Lutheran parsons wear when they preach as a mark of the Beast. Later on I discovered that those gowns are really the kind of clothes any respectable gentleman would wear during the days of the Reformation, or when their Church originated by none other than Martin Luther. So in that way their gown is similar to the clothes the Amish are wearing., just from a different age.
Why do we then insist on wearing a modern dress with the tie, which is a modern invention, when we preach? Is that any more according to an elevated pattern?
Could you imagine George Vandeman or Doug Batchelor in a gown when they appear preaching on TV?
Where is the standard pattern for Adventist preachers designed and given a celestial approval?
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When did the idea of "Sunday Best" come into being? God sees us all week in what we wear, why should Sunday or Saturday be any different?
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When did the idea of "Sunday Best" come into being? God sees us all week in what we wear, why should Sunday or Saturday be any different?
It came with the "traditions" of men instead of following the law of God. Find that in book of Daniel. Going to meet and worship the creator should bring out our best on the Santified Day of Worship that is in the 10 Commandments that have not been done away with only through the eyes of following false doctrine.
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When I was a small boy growing up Adventist but in a Lutherans society I saw the gowns the Lutheran parsons wear when they preach as a mark of the Beast. Later on I discovered that those gowns are really the kind of clothes any respectable gentleman would wear during the days of the Reformation, or when their Church originated by none other than Martin Luther. ...
Martin Luther didn't originate the Lutheran Church. That came later, no?
SDAminister
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Because those instructions notwithstanding, the church cannot make a strong case, and have had to back down from their official stance.
I've always thought that a strong case could be made on that subject, and I have yet to hear that the Seventh-day Adventist Church has ever backed down from its official stance on the matter.
Sure, we have members that don't follow our teachings on that subject, but that is the way it is on many subjects. We're certainly against divorce without biblical grounds, but there are members who've done it anyway, such as Danny Shelton. But just because Danny did it doesn't mean that the Church has backed down from its official stance on divorce.
We've even got members who eat pork. The Church certainly hasn't backed down on that one either.
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Lol... I am, ummm, somewhere in the middle of the age thing there... and single.
Murielago,
OH now, so you are a single guy, careful I might have to fix you up with a beautiful girl. Could you be late thirties, or early forties? or late forties or maybe you really are taken by now. ;)
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Bob, they really never uniformly enforced the policy regarding wearing wedding bands(jewelry, right?). It is really only an issue here in the US, and other places where wedding rings are tradition and not law. They ran into trouble when they sent missionaries[couples] to mission fields in countries where the wedding band was law, and the policy was not enforced. Well, we all know that folks don't sped their entire lives in the mission field and they come home to the US........they refused to take off those bands and GC had not a leg to stand on to require them to do so. If they had biblical support for it, believe me they would have used it, but they did not.
Also you can no longer keep any member from serving if they wear them. "Just because the Bible worker/pastor, even Bible said so", is not going to be a good enough answer on judgement day, because God focuses on the inward, man focuses on the outward appearance. He wants to know if you heart is right and we all know that "looking the part" is not indication of what is on the inside. Fols fake it all the time...........is this not what you are saying that Danny does. Is he not Vegan? Does he not attend services on Sabbath Is he not head of a Sabbath Keeping Ministry that also preaches the 3 Angels Message? How is all this outward expression of Adventism working for him?
iI've always thought that a strong case could be made on that subject, and I have yet to hear that the Seventh-day Adventist Church has ever backed down from its official stance on the matter.
Sure, we have members that don't follow our teachings on that subject, but that is the way it is on many subjects. We're certainly against divorce without biblical grounds, but there are members who've done it anyway, such as Danny Shelton. But just because Danny did it doesn't mean that the Church has backed down from its official stance on divorce.
We've even got members who eat pork. The Church certainly hasn't backed down on that one either.
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Bob, they really never uniformly enforced the policy regarding wearing wedding bands(jewelry, right?). It is really only an issue here in the US, and other places where wedding rings are tradition and not law. They ran into trouble when they sent missionaries[couples] to mission fields in countries where the wedding band was law, and the policy was not enforced. Well, we all know that folks don't sped their entire lives in the mission field and they come home to the US........they refused to take off those bands and GC had not a leg to stand on to require them to do so. If they had biblical support for it, believe me they would have used it, but they did not.
Also you can no longer keep any member from serving if they wear them. "Just because the Bible worker/pastor, even Bible said so", is not going to be a good enough answer on judgement day, because God focuses on the inward, man focuses on the outward appearance. He wants to know if you heart is right and we all know that "looking the part" is not indication of what is on the inside. Fols fake it all the time...........is this not what you are saying that Danny does. Is he not Vegan? Does he not attend services on Sabbath Is he not head of a Sabbath Keeping Ministry that also preaches the 3 Angels Message? How is all this outward expression of Adventism working for him?
iI've always thought that a strong case could be made on that subject, and I have yet to hear that the Seventh-day Adventist Church has ever backed down from its official stance on the matter.
Sure, we have members that don't follow our teachings on that subject, but that is the way it is on many subjects. We're certainly against divorce without biblical grounds, but there are members who've done it anyway, such as Danny Shelton. But just because Danny did it doesn't mean that the Church has backed down from its official stance on divorce.
We've even got members who eat pork. The Church certainly hasn't backed down on that one either.
I would really like to know why you claim to be an Adventist when the only thing I've heard is your mention of being a SS teacher and call Sabbath Sabbath. You have many many differences from the time I first started to watch the posts and discovered your not into SP. A true Adventist knows exactly what SP is all about and what it is for. The best psychology books ever written for a Christian's understanding and well being physically and mentally as a true Christian and in lower level for even almost uneducated can understand with the least reading skills.
It has been impossible for you to follow along and get into what everyone states correctly and knowledgeable of what they are meaning on many different subjects.
I've watched you argue the points of wine, star wars, games (chess), movies and abortion justifications of what ever floats your boat and all points either from the far left and the far right and back again. I've watched you jump back and forth till it was mind boggling on the DS case, one day your against all action and the next for it. The statements that are plain Biblical on this is where we are not to touch our productive organs including men and I did not know that until not long ago. But to save lives in case of disease a women has surgery. No matter what statements in SP that are clear and match the Bible completely with no doubt you find some story of the church where they were not correct in their foundation. Are you denying God His Supreme work of His doing? But what I find is that when like posters come on here you attach to them very quickly.
This religion is different from all. This religion is based for the obeying of God's will and not our own likes and dislikes taking the Bible as it's foundation in its entirety. I can find what ever my preferences are in any other church that I want to. I am looking to obey, trust and have faith in Words made known to me through scripture. It is a fact that our hearts read and pick what we want but I make it a fact of reading correct English word for word and except what it says instead of my own interpretation. You can go to dooms day and I am "sealed" in (belief, sanctified with the SDA belief and so far working on (God's Justification of me and hoping for Salvation of it) the Bible, what God has given in prophets, messengers and forefathers of our denomination. Our foundation has never changed but the people have and the people did the confusion and the "new age changes" to where you cannot tell them from worldly "incests" of churches. All though we have been given the opportunity and knowledge of true meaning of Ten Commandments there are those that have open hearts that will soon follow at their time before too late. Many of these true blues of God's are still everywhere in the working of God's hands and we are only His instruments. Blessed are the those that keep the Commandments of God as they shall enter the gates. simple rule here right at the end. Killing is one of them. Do you call it forceful rule to legislate "no Killing"? The fact is not taking away a women's rights of her own body --but we are trying to stop the "Killing" of the meek and helpless within the sin she committed that is not her individual body anymore. as now this concerns God's mechanism of a different person with individual rights created by His creation's way of life. Bet you don't get it yet and neither does S. and with this stance it appears that God's brand new individual baby now has no right's. along with abortion comes the sin of complete selfishness to another and no way out of this one. In case of mother's death, vegetable from sin within would be the only case as the selfishness caused the deformed vegetable of which now can be seen through technology. and that charge will still be on your disrespect of the use of God's creational gifts. You squandered it, blew it, tortured the late fetus, drugged it knifed it and hated it. God is love and that is not...... Justifyable, I should say not. Forgiveable yes, under true repentance.
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Also you can no longer keep any member from serving if they wear them.
This is a common misunderstanding. The request that churches not prevent people from being members or officers specifically concerned folks that conscientiously wear a simple wedding band.
Thus, that request had nothing to do with studded wedding rings, or those who wear a wedding band for other than conscientious reasons.
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Not working, Bob. A wedding band with one diamond, is still simple. But you are making my point. There is not this type of confusion surrounding the doctrine of the Sabbath.
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Not working, Bob. A wedding band with one diamond, is still simple. But you are making my point. There is not this type of confusion surrounding the doctrine of the Sabbath.
I don't see the confusion.
What percentage of folks out there do you think wear simple wedding bands because their conscience tells them they have to, or else they would be sinning?
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Tinka - Are you saying that a woman who has a "vegetable" is a sinner and that is why the child is born defective?
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Tinka - Are you saying that a woman who has a "vegetable" is a sinner and that is why the child is born defective?
No Grat, I am saying that a woman who does sinful things, drugs, drinks smoking and harmful things that causes the baby to be a vegetable is just as responsible. sorry I did not make that more clear. I know that I have a terrible problem as my fingers type I think as fast as my brain projects and I miss words, misspell, and turn thoughts around and I know I should be more careful. I know for a fact that no one would think of me helping critique a book someone has written. If it is critical I take the time of correctness. I write terrible but know when someone else writes good. (smile). time is always a factor with me. also had some hard days this past week.
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Excuse my stupidity, but what is "SP"?
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Literally SP is Spirit of Prophecy, in SDA terms it refers to the writings of Ellen White.
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We move on, and change with the seasons of change in culture, advancement of knowledge and with technology. "He who rejects change is the architect of decay." Harold Wilson.
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When I was a small boy growing up Adventist but in a Lutherans society I saw the gowns the Lutheran parsons wear when they preach as a mark of the Beast. Later on I discovered that those gowns are really the kind of clothes any respectable gentleman would wear during the days of the Reformation, or when their Church originated by none other than Martin Luther. ...
Martin Luther didn't originate the Lutheran Church. That came later, no?
SDAminister
Depends how technical/critical you want to be. Try carrying your statement as a slogan on a banner through one of the Luther Institutes of Germany or Schools of Theology in Scandinavia and see how far you get. In my country the Lutheran Church is the state church and it claims to be established by Martin Luther. The Augsburg Confession is from 1530 or 16 years before the death of Martin Luther.
Many Lutherans consider Martin Luther not only the originator but the Prophet of the Lutheran Church, and they study his writings as such.
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Luther never sought to leave the Roman Catholic Church. He had no idea what would come to pass after he nailed those 95 theses on the door of the Wittenburg Cathedral. He never renounced his Catholicism. The Roman Catholics excommunicated him.
Anyway, we all know that 3ABN doesn't represent our church even though they say and act like they do. We allm know that Danny is nothing like Moses or Jesus or any of his other comparisons. None of us care to sip Danny's Kool-Ade.
He's just as fake as his hair.
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That's just wrong, Horsethief! LOL!!! As a p[rofessional hairstylist, Danny's hair always did kind of work my nerves. He needs a good hair piece, with a decent color. :ROFL:
He's just as fake as his hair.
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Well, he will need something soon because his hairline on the sides is receding while the hair plugs are staying in so he is looking like he has a Mohawk.
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How many Koreans have you seen sporting afros? I have only seen one, and his name is Kim Jong Il. He wears high heels and keeps his hair in an afro in order to simulate height. Sometimes those vertically held hair plugs on top can be an important addition to high-heeled boots in creating the illusion that one is a little taller than they are. When it comes to presentation of self, everyone has their individual needs and quirks. Danny and Kim Jong Il wish to be viewed as being taller, most women use makeup to look smoother and younger, Tinka want to look simple, others prefer to affect tatoos... and so on. I have seen SDAs who wear their hair, facial hair, and clothing in the styles seen in pictures of the late 19th century founding fathers of the church as that makes them feel that they are somehow closer to God than those with modern styles... oh well. Variety and oddities make life interesting.
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Well, he will need something soon because his hairline on the sides is receding while the hair plugs are staying in so he is looking like he has a Mohawk.
Meow :ROFL: :cat: :oops:
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Variety and oddities make life interesting.
Variety, vanity and oddities make life interesting. and show many defects of character. as attentions is brought to self the defects. Tatoos was once a navy, prision thing, here in America --now what is it????? I think it must be a "followers paradise" of "Satans marks of owning" . I think it is not the tatoo as much as the reason a person wants one. It is the most disgusting thing along with the peircings and cutting of the body. It appears they hate their body, mind and soul. Then it is no longer interesting but tragic as we see thousands go down with no thoughts of eternity with God who loved them. This is heart wrenching.
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:ROFL: That is hilarious!!! See, Hair Club would not let him go out like that! :ROFL: who does his hair anyway, and Tommy's for that matter? They look a ruckus all the time.
Well, he will need something soon because his hairline on the sides is receding while the hair plugs are staying in so he is looking like he has a Mohawk.
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Anyone here ever watched "DELIVERANCE' ???
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Is that a tv program or a movie? What is the story of it?
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Tinka, I have never seen the "movie" but it is about some friends(all men) who go on a camping/rafting in the woods/wilderness. They meet with quite a bit of foul play, including some kind of crazed mountain man......or something like that. I think the details are pretty scary.
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I just want to publicly re-emphasize the "MISNOMER" of this subject...and Bob, just how many times do I have to remind you that 3ABN is "NON-DENOMINATIONAL"!!!
Tut, tut, tut!!! And now we have a judge affirming this!!!
Get in the groove, here!!!
Now, here is a pole question: Just how many of you want 3ABN to be a denominational TV station given it's current staffing and direction!!! Make mine a resounding "NO-O-O-O!!!"
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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My vote is No also, replace, replace replace. You got a french fry freek, a spike and Betty Boopsie Tootsie and a cloned Fawsett. I know I should not do this but a bad moment of "fuuny bones" and impressions of wanta be "Hollywoods" sneak into my mind with visuals of their own "vanities" displayed. :help: me :ROFL: Vanity always has a funny way of drawing attention when in wrong place and wrong timing. At least they could hide it!
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ADMIN NOTE:
I don't read here as often as I used to. But recently as I have been catching up on new posts, I am struck by the lows our forum has sunk to. Can't we discuss the issues respectfully with each other without resorting to making fun of people's appearances and wondering how Tommy and Bubba will get along together? Good grief.
Our Creator hates the sin but loves the sinner. Shouldn't we strive to do the same?
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LOL!!! That's just wrong, GJ!!!! :ROFL:
I just want to publicly re-emphasize the "MISNOMER" of this subject...and Bob, just how many times do I have to remind you that 3ABN is "NON-DENOMINATIONAL"!!!
Tut, tut, tut!!! And now we have a judge affirming this!!!
Get in the groove, here!!!
Now, here is a pole question: Just how many of you want 3ABN to be a denominational TV station given it's current staffing and direction!!! Make mine a resounding "NO-O-O-O!!!"
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter