Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: Adam on May 05, 2011, 05:44:35 PM
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The first trial is scheduled for the last week in May, and the second one is for the first week in June. Now, regardless of what the other site says....saying Tommy refuses to accept another plea deal...the truth is both victims have informed the prosecutor they are not interested in offering TS one. They are fully prepared and ready to testify against this scum bag. May justice be done, and may ALL his victims receive closure that they both desire and deserve!
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I also want to be clear here: I do not know Tommy Shelton, nor do I hate him. To be completely honest I feel bad that he allowed himself to be placed in this situation. However, I am acquainted with a few of his victims. I have witnessed the pain and seen first hand what emotional and physical impact this has had on their lives. Especially in the last year. Prayer is needed on both sides. Prayer for the victims as well as Tommy and his family. I am well aware of the stress that both sides must be enduring. Yet, that does not relinquish the consequences that must be faced if a jury of Mr. Sheltons peers declare him guilty. I close with this towards Tommy: Mr. Shelton: my prayer and hope is that you truley are remorseful for your actions over the past 30 or so years. I also hope that you have indeed tried to correct your errors, and have not hurt others. A day of reckoning is coming, and I hope to see you on the other side, when we gather together and worship our Lord!
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I also want to be clear here: I do not know Tommy Shelton, nor do I hate him. To be completely honest I feel bad that he allowed himself to be placed in this situation. However, I am acquainted with a few of his victims. I have witnessed the pain and seen first hand what emotional and physical impact this has had on their lives. Especially in the last year. Prayer is needed on both sides. Prayer for the victims as well as Tommy and his family. I am well aware of the stress that both sides must be enduring. Yet, that does not relinquish the consequences that must be faced if a jury of Mr. Sheltons peers declare him guilty. I close with this towards Tommy: Mr. Shelton: my prayer and hope is that you truley are remorseful for your actions over the past 30 or so years. I also hope that you have indeed tried to correct your errors, and have not hurt others. A day of reckoning is coming, and I hope to see you on the other side, when we gather together and worship our Lord!
Well said Adam!
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It is my hope that Tommy has made things right with his Lord. If he has then he is my brother in Christ. Even if he has to pay for the evil he has committed. The truth is we serve a God of love and forgiveness. Even though I find his actions sick and unimaginable- I pray I will see him around the throne of Heaven one day!
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Amen, Adam! I can see in your latest posts "that peace that passeth understanding".
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I want to add my own "Amen!" to Adam's posts here in this thread.
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I also want to be clear here: I do not know Tommy Shelton, nor do I hate him. To be completely honest I feel bad that he allowed himself to be placed in this situation. However, I am acquainted with a few of his victims. I have witnessed the pain and seen first hand what emotional and physical impact this has had on their lives. Especially in the last year. Prayer is needed on both sides. Prayer for the victims as well as Tommy and his family. I am well aware of the stress that both sides must be enduring. Yet, that does not relinquish the consequences that must be faced if a jury of Mr. Sheltons peers declare him guilty. I close with this towards Tommy: Mr. Shelton: my prayer and hope is that you truly are remorseful for your actions over the past 30 or so years. I also hope that you have indeed tried to correct your errors, and have not hurt others. A day of reckoning is coming, and I hope to see you on the other side, when we gather together and worship our Lord!
Amen. :amen: :goodpost:
Adam, may you be blessed. A certain peace comes into one's life when they can let go of the hatred and any animosity. That is not to say for one moment, that one should condone the behaviours of such terrible actions, but there does come a point when we need to realise that God meters out the final judgement.
I believed that I could never 'let go' of the behaviours of perpetrators/abusers, but as I've studied the subject for quite a long time now, one of my lecturers showed me the extremely rigid program that perpetrators who genuinely want to be rehabilitated have to go through. I was still not prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt and said that I could never work with them (the way I've felt for over 30 years), but I'm just starting to think that MAYBE, if they meet ALL the criteria required and show genuine remorse and stick to everything that is demanded of them to demonstrate that they have indeed repented and are remorseful, perhaps (just perhaps), I could begin to work (closely supervised) with SOME perpetrators after all. Previously, my only thoughts were, lock them up with other prisoners (who will deal with them anyhow) and throw away the key.
I guess one point that this particular lecturer kept hammering home to me was that most perpetrators have been 'victims' themselves in their younger years, so have they grown up believing this is 'normal behaviour'? Definitely still not acceptable to me; especially as I've sat with so many victims over the years and heard theirs and their family's tormented stories, but then, I have tried to remind myself, that we all have behaviours that are unacceptable to God, and He forgives us, as long as we are genuinely remorseful and determine, by His Grace to change our ways.
Still not an easy one for me, but one I'm working on. However... I still believe that this behaviour should not go unpunished and the 'victims' should have all the assistance they need and see justice done.
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The first trial is scheduled for the last week in May, and the second one is for the first week in June. Now, regardless of what the other site says....saying Tommy refuses to accept another plea deal...the truth is both victims have informed the prosecutor they are not interested in offering TS one. They are fully prepared and ready to testify against this scum bag. May justice be done, and may ALL his victims receive closure that they both desire and deserve!
Sorry, as anxious as you all are to get some money the criminal trial will be postponed indefinitely since TS has had a massive stroke that has done some damage to the brain. If you haven't heard from the prosecutor yet, you will. It matters not whether she is "buying it" has someone cannot fake a stroke, especially a massive stroke. An MRI, a Cat scan and an MRA have all been performed to prove the diagnosis. He has been hospitalized since Saturday night and all the medical reports are on their way from the treating doctor. The balance center of the brain is what has been damaged so he cannot keep his balance at all is extremely dizzy which in turns causes him to not be able to keep anything down. He has been on morphine as the pain in his head is excrutiating. When the prosecutor receives the documentation I will expect her to apologize to Tommy's attorney for her pitiful attitude. FYI TS would rather be at the trial next week instead versus suffering the effects of a massive stroke. Did it ever occur to any of you that he is anxious to get this over with, be vindicated and get on with life? When a jury sees that your side is only out for money and listens to Alex's story...let's see how does it go now? He was molested at 11 years old when he was virginia and it traumitized and ruined his life..yet...when he was 15 he decided to go work at the place where his former molester worked! Not only that but somehow he allowed himself to be alone with this molester not just once but over and over again in a facility that employes over 125 people. Then somehow though he was 15 and a big strapping lad even then, he couldn't get away or call for help. Again the question will be asked if he was molested at 3abn how in the world would he put himself in a position for it to happen repeatedly? If he was molested in Va why would he go anywhere near where his molester worked 4 years later? Not to mention keeping it all quiet for 15 years.
There are so many holes in that story his own mother is willing to testify against him. Before you try to deny that again, Bob Pickle has fantasized over the years that he is "quite the investigator" So Bob, I challenge you to call Alex's mother yourself and see what she has to say. After all Bob, you have always claimed to want the "truth".
If TS dies it will be on your heads as the stress of all of this has caused it. Adam maybe you really believe Alex's accusations but Alex knows none of it is true. At the end of time Alex will cry out for the rocks and mountains to fall on his head rather than face the judgement he will reap trying to destroy a family and a ministry.
BTW your post of how you do not hate TS is so ridiculous when you have made hundreds of posts in the past months that have been full of hate, revenge and cruelty. So...I'm not buying your latest one.
And, Alex your sister says the last time you came to visit she caught you smoking pot. (Don't kill the messenger) Weird for someone who professes to be a preacher.
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Sorry, as anxious as you all are to get some money the criminal trial will be postponed indefinitely since TS has had a massive stroke that has done some damage to the brain.
That may be true. But remember, Tommy has a history of "having" health problems whenever he's about to face the music, but the health problems mysteriously go away after things quiet down. That's what Roger Clem said in his 2003 letter, others have said that as well.
It matters not whether she is "buying it" has someone cannot fake a stroke, especially a massive stroke.
Massive?
The balance center of the brain is what has been damaged so he cannot keep his balance at all is extremely dizzy which in turns causes him to not be able to keep anything down. He has been on morphine as the pain in his head is excrutiating.
Then he can praise the Lord that he still has the use of both sides of his body, and can talk unimpeded.
Have all the tests confirmed that he really has had a massive stroke? Can you provide any evidence to that effect? Are these symptoms typical of a "massive" stroke?
If TS dies it will be on your heads as the stress of all of this has caused it.
If Tommy cannot handle the stress of facing the music for molesting children that he admitted to molesting, then his blood is on his own head, and no one else's.
What? Are you going to charge King David with murder for the deaths of the one who claimed to have killed Saul, and of the ones who killed Saul's son? They brought it on themselves.
Re: Adam:
BTW your post of how you do not hate TS is so ridiculous when you have made hundreds of posts in the past months that have been full of hate, revenge and cruelty. So...I'm not buying your latest one.
I think you need to have more of a forgiving spirit.
And if someone came on here and said the same thing that you just said re: an apology by Danny Shelton for covering up the child molestation allegations, diverting money from 3ABN into his own pocket, dumping Linda without evidence of biblical grounds, and suing us, if some came on here and said they didn't buy his apology, I think I would make the same response.
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Sam, your reasoning of why the person who claims to be molested at 11 is lying is amazing! It shows that you know nothing about sexual victimization and sexual predators. I won't even try to point out all the holes in your argument, because I know it won't make any difference for you, but what you have said, in the face of so much common knowledge on the subject in even the secular world is like you coming on here to state that smoking doesn't cause cancer and that it is ridiculous to think so. :dunno:
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Sam- you are as nuts as always! Your reasoning to believe Alex was not molested is lets just say- retarded? Maybe it is you- that has suffered a brain injury to come up with that kind of logic? If Tommy dies it is no ones fault, but his own! I am positive no one will feel guilty ho has accused him. Now, even if Alex has smoked pot in the past as you claim- what does that have to do with anything?
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Btw-is this the same sister, Tina N. Walker, who had a child out of wed-lock with a married man? The same sister, Tina Walker, who is known for untruths? The same sister, Tina Walker, who stole money off her own parents to support her own drug addiction? If so, better get a better source of info, Sammy.
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It has been stated that there is a pattern of “illness” when he has been faced with problems. Is it possible deliberately or even subconsciously to work oneself up into a real heart attack or stroke? One might do so out of fear and then feel it has been a way out of facing consequences. This solution is only temporary even if it works.
Tommy’s defenders repeatedly claim it is mental stress that causes his health problems. If so and he can in any way manage the stress, using it or not facing up to the cause of it would be a dangerous game to play. If the illness accidentally proved fatal, he might meet his Maker without having repented.
It has been claimed that to hold Tommy responsible for his actions would harm himself, Carol, the rest of his family, 3ABN , new converts who have come into the church through 3ABN and the church. In other words put a “guilt trip” on anyone who does not “look the other way” and pretend that a problem does not exist or never existed. But there is not just one person with testimony but rather many.
There are many people in prison today whose families and others are hurt by their being in prison. Never punish an offender then because punishing them adversely affects others? But what about leaving them at large in the community to re-offend?
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Are these symptoms typical of a "massive" stroke?
Absolutely not! At least the way Sam is describing it.
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Sam,
Did Tommy have a massive stroke, or did he have a TIA?
A medical professional thought giving morphine for pain in the head after a stroke sounded weird. Various pages at http://www.blurtit.com/ (http://www.blurtit.com/) warn against giving morphine to a massive stroke victim. One problem, these pages say, is that morphine increases one's stroke risk.
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The first trial is scheduled for the last week in May, and the second one is for the first week in June. Now, regardless of what the other site says....saying Tommy refuses to accept another plea deal...the truth is both victims have informed the prosecutor they are not interested in offering TS one. They are fully prepared and ready to testify against this scum bag. May justice be done, and may ALL his victims receive closure that they both desire and deserve!
Sorry, as anxious as you all are to get some money the criminal trial will be postponed indefinitely since TS has had a massive stroke that has done some damage to the brain. If you haven't heard from the prosecutor yet, you will. It matters not whether she is "buying it" has someone cannot fake a stroke, especially a massive stroke. An MRI, a Cat scan and an MRA have all been performed to prove the diagnosis. He has been hospitalized since Saturday night and all the medical reports are on their way from the treating doctor. The balance center of the brain is what has been damaged so he cannot keep his balance at all is extremely dizzy which in turns causes him to not be able to keep anything down. He has been on morphine as the pain in his head is excrutiating. When the prosecutor receives the documentation I will expect her to apologize to Tommy's attorney for her pitiful attitude. FYI TS would rather be at the trial next week instead versus suffering the effects of a massive stroke. Did it ever occur to any of you that he is anxious to get this over with, be vindicated and get on with life? When a jury sees that your side is only out for money and listens to Alex's story...let's see how does it go now? He was molested at 11 years old when he was virginia and it traumitized and ruined his life..yet...when he was 15 he decided to go work at the place where his former molester worked! Not only that but somehow he allowed himself to be alone with this molester not just once but over and over again in a facility that employes over 125 people. Then somehow though he was 15 and a big strapping lad even then, he couldn't get away or call for help. Again the question will be asked if he was molested at 3abn how in the world would he put himself in a position for it to happen repeatedly? If he was molested in Va why would he go anywhere near where his molester worked 4 years later? Not to mention keeping it all quiet for 15 years.
There are so many holes in that story his own mother is willing to testify against him. Before you try to deny that again, Bob Pickle has fantasized over the years that he is "quite the investigator" So Bob, I challenge you to call Alex's mother yourself and see what she has to say. After all Bob, you have always claimed to want the "truth".
If TS dies it will be on your heads as the stress of all of this has caused it. Adam maybe you really believe Alex's accusations but Alex knows none of it is true. At the end of time Alex will cry out for the rocks and mountains to fall on his head rather than face the judgement he will reap trying to destroy a family and a ministry.
BTW your post of how you do not hate TS is so ridiculous when you have made hundreds of posts in the past months that have been full of hate, revenge and cruelty. So...I'm not buying your latest one.
And, Alex your sister says the last time you came to visit she caught you smoking pot. (Don't kill the messenger) Weird for someone who professes to be a preacher.
I wonder if Alex and any other alleged TS victims ever tried to get help from "The Hope of Survivors" - a group that claims to provide support for victims of clergy abuse... Do you know, Sam??
http://www.thehopeofsurvivors.com/biographies/Steve_Samantha.asp
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I do know of one victim who contacted them and they was of no help. Some organization they run there, huh?
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I do know of one victim who contacted them and they was of no help. Some organization they run there, huh?
Really? That's a shame. It sounds like this case is right down their alley (this from their website):
The Hope of Survivors, a worldwide ministry of compassion providing support, hope and encouragement to victims of pastoral (clergy) sexual abuse and misconduct, was co-founded by Steve & Samantha Nelson in December 2002. Steve is pastor of a four-church district in Southern Illinois, employed by the Illinois Conference of Seventh-day Adventists. In addition to his pastoral ministry, he is the President of The Hope of Survivors and an international speaker on pastoral sexual abuse, revival among God’s children, and many other topics. He has also developed a line of Bible studies in a bookmark format called StudyMarks (available through 3ABN). He is a Board Certified Biblical Counselor (BCBC) through the Board of Christian Professional and Pastoral Counselors, is a member of the American Association of Christian Counselors (AACC), is a Certified Belief Therapist (CBT) through the Therapon Institute, and has worked on many evangelistic campaigns and outreach projects throughout the years. Steve is also a member of the Adventist Association of Family Life Professionals (AAFLP).
Samantha serves as Vice President and CEO of The Hope of Survivors and is also an international speaker on pastoral sexual abuse. She has served as personal ministries and community services director, holds North American Division certification as an Adventist Community Services caseworker, received the 2004 Woman of Distinction Award from the Northern California Conference of Seventh-day Adventists and is a member of the American Association of Christian Counselors (AACC). She is a Board Certified Biblical Counselor (BCBC) through the Board of Christian Professional and Pastoral Counselors, holds an Associate in Ministry degree in Biblical Counseling, is a Certified Belief Therapist (CBT) through the Therapon Institute, and is the author of the book, Reaching the Hurting: A Biblical Guide for Helping Abuse Victims. Samantha is also a member of the Adventist Association of Family Life Professionals (AAFLP).
In addition to their education and ongoing training, Steve and Samantha are uniquely qualified due to their own past experience. Using this experience, the knowledge of God’s Word and other inspired sources, they have helped numerous individuals begin to heal from the devastation of pastoral sexual abuse and to renew their relationship with the Lord. They assist individuals from all denominations in their search for truth and healing through correspondence and victim retreats/conferences, and they seek to show these hurting individuals God’s love for them. They also provide educational materials and seminars for pastors, churches and the general public. Thus, Steve and Samantha move forward in faith, counting on the Lord for wisdom and knowledge.
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Yep- but if you're a TS Victim might as well forget that spin.
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Just a thought, but if TS is indeed 'anxious to be vindicated' then why is he so stressed??? That makes no sense.
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BTW Sam before you start spouting off....I dont want to hear TS has had his livelihood taken away and his name ruined. You and your cronies have wasted NO time re-victimizing victims. I suppose that will be brought up in court anyway. Not to mention the fact that Tommy took so many young BOYS innocence. So, don't even start with me Sam about how Tommy is soooooo stressed! I hope he is as he should be! He will be more stressed when his jury finds him guilty, huh? He may fool the court this time and be allowed a continuance. But....he can't stop the inevitable from happening...unless he just dies. He's going to jail....face it. Wait until one of the prosecutors witnesses who was a pastor at the time...and close friend of the Sheltons testifies against him! Tommy will pee down his leg as they cuff his hind end and take him away!
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Yep- but if you're a TS Victim might as well forget that spin.
Then maybe they should change their name! How about "Hope for Select Survivors"?
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Knowing Danny would do anything to cover up his brother's criminal actions, I woudn't be surprised if he paid someone to use an MRI or any other charts that belong to someone else to make it look like Tommy's. Desperation knows no bounds.
Just my personal opinion.
PS... to Sam... Tommy DID admit in court he did do what he was accused of. How can Tommy be vindicated and go on with his usual life with young boys if he admited to wrong doing in court? I need this explained to me in a way I can understand.
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Diagnosis of a CVA (Stroke) involves multiple testing of which a MRI is only one part. When it is all over, the evidence will be substantial as to whether or not Tommy has had a CVA and there will be an initial evaulation as to the potential damage. Final evaulation as to the long-term effect will only come some time later. That diagnosis will be made by means such as a MRI as well as other tests that will be done on Tommy.
Do any of you really think that highly-paid physician professionals would risk the loss of thier license to practice medicine over a payment that DAnny might make to them? I do not think so. Such is mere speculation that is groundless and it is not based upon any kind of reasonableness.
Several years ago, a geriatric physician who works at the hospital where I work was offered a salary of $250,000 per year to leave our hospital and to move to a hospital on another State. He turned the offer down. Probably in part, because he is married to another physician and did not want to move.
Folks, it simply is not reasonable to think that Danny Shelton could pay a group of high-paid professionals enough to persuade them to do something that would risk their license to practice medicine. Folks, there are several such likely involved in the diagnosis of Tommy Shelton.
The judge is going to get an accurate diagnosis of Tommy. You can depend upon it.
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Mr. Gregory,
You know as well as I do that we can now safely assume, and based on various bits of evidence, that the civil case against Tommy Ray Shelton, Danny Lee Shelton and Three Angels Broadcasting has been settled for an undisclosed sum and undisclosed terms, likely a structured settlement over several years to keep the victims silent, and that is likely to muffle, if not muzzle, the plaintiffs in the civil and criminal case.
So, he, Danny, may not be able to manufacture credible basis for a faked CVA, but Danny, Jim and his board could easilly pay witnesses/plaintiffs to become amnesiacs. Much as the IRS case, it is settled, goes away and in the "silence of the moment" we all realize they have missed the bullet yet again. "Exonerated" is the term that will be used, bought out is the term I will use. Money can do amazing things to bury the truth!!!
The good news is that the SDA church has also missed the bullet and will not have to worry about a decade of blistering investigations and litigation.
C'est la vie!!!
Gailon Arthur joy
AUReporter
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Mr. Gregory,
You know as well as I do that we can now safely assume, and based on various bits of evidence, that the civil case against Tommy Ray Shelton, Danny Lee Shelton and Three Angels Broadcasting has been settled for an undisclosed sum and undisclosed terms, likely a structured settlement over several years to keep the victims silent, and that is likely to muffle, if not muzzle, the plaintiffs in the civil and criminal case.
This is just plumb crazy. Adam, who's source is the unmuzzled plaintiff, Alex Walker, just announced there would be no more settlement talks and are announcing a lawsuit, not a settlement.
So, he, Danny, may not be able to manufacture credible basis for a faked CVA, but Danny, Jim and his board could easilly pay witnesses/plaintiffs to become amnesiacs. Much as the IRS case, it is settled, goes away and in the "silence of the moment" we all realize they have missed the bullet yet again. "Exonerated" is the term that will be used, bought out is the term I will use. Money can do amazing things to bury the truth!!!
Again this is just plumb, crazy. Pickle and Joy are both now accusing the IRS of taking bribes and payoffs, ie of acting criminally, yet they have no evidence for their character defamation except that they think this had to have happened because there is no way they could ever be wrong. The IRS investigation exonerated 3ABN. It has been years now, and not one ammended document has been filed correcting anything previously filed by 3ABN, no one has been indicted, no case filed etc.. but for some reason neither Joy or Pickle can see this, and keep insisting on running with their view despite the facts...
Pathetic...
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Mr. Gregory,
You know as well as I do that we can now safely assume, and based on various bits of evidence, that the civil case against Tommy Ray Shelton, Danny Lee Shelton and Three Angels Broadcasting has been settled for an undisclosed sum and undisclosed terms, likely a structured settlement over several years to keep the victims silent, and that is likely to muffle, if not muzzle, the plaintiffs in the civil and criminal case.
This is just plumb crazy. Adam, who's source is the unmuzzled plaintiff, Alex Walker, just announced there would be no more settlement talks and are announcing a lawsuit, not a settlement.
So, he, Danny, may not be able to manufacture credible basis for a faked CVA, but Danny, Jim and his board could easilly pay witnesses/plaintiffs to become amnesiacs. Much as the IRS case, it is settled, goes away and in the "silence of the moment" we all realize they have missed the bullet yet again. "Exonerated" is the term that will be used, bought out is the term I will use. Money can do amazing things to bury the truth!!!
Again this is just plumb, crazy. Pickle and Joy are both now accusing the IRS of taking bribes and payoffs, ie of acting criminally, yet they have no evidence for their character defamation except that they think this had to have happened because there is no way they could ever be wrong. The IRS investigation exonerated 3ABN. It has been years now, and not one ammended document has been filed correcting anything previously filed by 3ABN, no one has been indicted, no case filed etc.. but for some reason neither Joy or Pickle can see this, and keep insisting on running with their view despite the facts...
Pathetic...
ADMIN HAT ON
Nowhere have Joy OR Pickle EVER accused the IRS of taking bribes and payoffs!! I'm surprised at you! In your line of work I would think you would understand the concept of a confidential settlement, if that is indeed what happened. Get your facts straight or take it to the smut site!!
ADMIN HAT OFF
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The IRS investigation exonerated 3ABN.
I have yet to see any evidence that the IRS criminal investigation exonerated 3ABN and Danny of all criminal and civil issues. Indeed, Attorney Greg Simpson himself admitted to me that the criminal investigation did not go back to 1998, and thus did not cover the scandalous 1998 real estate deal.
Please explain to us how the IRS would have approved of Danny Shelton using Remnant as a conduit into his own pocket for 3ABN funds in the form of kickbacks.
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The IRS investigation exonerated 3ABN.
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Please explain to us how the IRS would have approved of Danny Shelton using Remnant as a conduit into his own pocket for 3ABN funds in the form of kickbacks.
Of course the IRS would not condone that kind of thing unless they were unethical and they didn't. The simply did not reach the same conclusions Pickle and Joy did with their partial info and assumptions. The IRS had all the facts and so 3ABN was exonerated. It really sounds to me as if Pickle's question is an accusatory one not just against 3abn, but also the IRS...
In an effort to "Get my facts straight..."He previously posted, days ago:
But regarding 3ABN's property tax case, how many donations and payments did 3ABN make during the course of that case?
None. If there was evidence they had ever done either then you can be sure Pickle and Joy would have posted it long since. It's been years now...
I think the official record shows that they did make some donations and payments. If it was just out of the goodness of their hearts, then I think we should be able to show over the course of their history before and after that time period that they made other large donations of their assets and/or income to governmental entities in the southern Illinois area.
If we cannot find record of similar large donations of assets and money to governmental entities before and after the property tax case, then, especially in light of this "Does Money Talk" story, I see no problem asking for clarification as to why the donations in question were made.
As there seems to be some confusion, perhaps Robert Pickle could explain exactly what "Governmental entities" he is talking about? and why he is claiming alleged "donations" were made to them during the property tax case , when as far as I know he doesn't have any evidence to even suggest this
and what his point is in bringing this up in relation to the "Does money talk" story for Snoopy.
Perhaps I presumed wrongly as she says and such a donation if it occured (it didn't) under the circumstances he and Joy keep claiming would not be considered a bribe or payoff?
It sounded to me as if that is what was being insinuated or suggested when Pickle wrote the following to me:
Did 3ABN give donations to governmental entities during their property tax case, and did they give similar donations before and after that tax case which would show that the donations during the tax case were not unusual?
Then Joy posted:
"So, he, Danny, may not be able to manufacture credible basis for a faked CVA, but Danny, Jim and his board could easilly pay witnesses/plaintiffs to become amnesiacs. Much as the IRS case, it is settled, goes away and in the "silence of the moment" we all realize they have missed the bullet yet again. "Exonerated" is the term that will be used, bought out is the term I will use. Money can do amazing things to bury the truth!!!"
and now Pickle replies to Snoopy in regards to the IRS investigation:
"Please explain to us how the IRS would have approved of "Danny Shelton using Remnant as a conduit into his own pocket for 3ABN funds in the form of kickbacks."
If Pickle and Joy were correct (They aren't) that "Danny Shelton using Remnant as a conduit into his own pocket for 3ABN funds in the form of kickbacks." there is no way the IRS would have missed that in their investigation or done nothing about it, and they have done nothing....
Folks, If , note I say "IF", 3ABN and DS paid money to anyone to silence them, or to bury the truth, or look the other way, or make cases go away, (They haven't) then no matter who it is, the thing is not only would they be acting ilegally and unethically, but so would the reciepient. You can't have 3ABN and DS being guilty without saying the governmental agencies or who ever is also guilty. That isn't hard to understand, is it?{
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Of course the IRS would not condone that kind of thing unless they were unethical and they didn't. The simply did not reach the same conclusions Pickle and Joy did with their partial info and assumptions. The IRS had all the facts and so 3ABN was exonerated.
What partial info and assumptions, Sir Mizer? Be specific.
And/or provide your proof exoneration, proof that Walt Thompson testified under oath could not be obtained.
Sir Mizer, I know about books, and I know about publishing. It is public record that 3ABN started buying Danny's Pacific Press booklets from Remnant instead of from Danny in 2005, for the same higher price than they could have gotten them straight from Pacific Press.
It is public record that Remnant didn't stock the booklets, and had to have them drop shipped from Pacific Press.
It is public record that we laid all this out in August 26, 2008, and said that this only made sense if this was a kickback scheme.
Since Pacific Press was the publisher, any payments by Remnant to Danny or DLS Publishing for those sales would be kickbacks, not royalties.
Attorney Greg Simpson admitted in a public filing that payments for those sales had occurred.
The only way out of the conclusion that these payments were kickbacks is to provide some sort of shred of evidence that Remnant was the publisher after 2005 for those booklets. But if there was any such evidence, Simpson would have filed it to counter the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Folks, If , note I say "IF", 3ABN and DS paid money to anyone to silence them, or to bury the truth, or look the other way, or make cases go away, (They haven't) then no matter who it is, the thing is not only would they be acting ilegally and unethically, but so would the reciepient.
If you don't think there was a payment as part of a consent decree or some similar sort of agreement, then please explain what really did happen, with evidence. But you have boxed yourself in a corner, for you have already declared that the IRS would not ignore this kickback issue. So then, what really did happen?
But regarding 3ABN's property tax case, how many donations and payments did 3ABN make during the course of that case?
None. If there was evidence they had ever done either then you can be sure Pickle and Joy would have posted it long since. It's been years now...
As there seems to be some confusion, perhaps Robert Pickle could explain exactly what "Governmental entities" he is talking about? and why he is claiming alleged "donations" were made to them during the property tax case , when as far as I know he doesn't have any evidence to even suggest this
and what his point is in bringing this up in relation to the "Does money talk" story for Snoopy.
Why in the world would you challenge us to post it?
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and now Pickle replies to Snoopy in regards to the IRS investigation:
"Please explain to us how the IRS would have approved of "Danny Shelton using Remnant as a conduit into his own pocket for 3ABN funds in the form of kickbacks."
I believe Bob was replying to you, dude.
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There was a status conference today. I heard that there will be another status conference in July, since Tommy's attorney did show up with better medical records than what had been produced before.
So Tommy's trials have been postponed, is the word I have heard.
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Better medical records?
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Better medical records?
Better documentation than what his lawyer originally tried to use, is what I was told.
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Better medical records?
Better documentation than what his lawyer originally tried to use, is what I was told.
Did he or did he not have a stroke?
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Better medical records?
Better documentation than what his lawyer originally tried to use, is what I was told.
Did he or did he not have a stroke?
Yes, he had a stroke, and after the initial report to the court when it first occured, his lawyer was able to present that documentation as required and as asked for.
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What kind of hospital did he go to? He should have been able to get something more definitive the first time around. My little nephew got one for his school for a virus. I think that is the confusion here. Everyone knows you can get papers regarding the patient's diagnosis, especially if it is for the courts. i am sure they had TS approval to do so. What was the hold up? i owuld be a little leary by now if i were the judge.
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Sam saying he was on morphine raises the question of whether he even had a stroke, since morphine isn't something you give stroke patients.
He probably went to Rush Foundation Hospital. There was a Tommy Shelton there.
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LOL!! Snoopy, I just laugh everytime I see this post! it is so you! Go on gurl! :ROFL:
and now Pickle replies to Snoopy in regards to the IRS investigation:
"Please explain to us how the IRS would have approved of "Danny Shelton using Remnant as a conduit into his own pocket for 3ABN funds in the form of kickbacks."
I believe Bob was replying to you, dude.
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See now Bob, since I don't anything about medicine other than to take some when I need it, this thought also crossed my mind but I didn't say anything. Maybe somebody who has some knowledge in the area would be kind enough to elaborate.
Sam saying he was on morphine raises the question of whether he even had a stroke, since morphine isn't something you give stroke patients.
He probably went to Rush Foundation Hospital. There was a Tommy Shelton there.
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I talked with a medical professional, and their reaction about the morphine was, "That's weird." We then found info that said that you don't give morphine to stroke patients. One problem is that morphine increases risk of stroke.
See now Bob, since I don't anything about medicine other than to take some when I need it, this thought also crossed my mind but I didn't say anything. Maybe somebody who has some knowledge in the area would be kind enough to elaborate.
Sam saying he was on morphine raises the question of whether he even had a stroke, since morphine isn't something you give stroke patients.
He probably went to Rush Foundation Hospital. There was a Tommy Shelton there.
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Also, the problem with stroke is the Laxk of feeling, not intense pain. Those were actually my first thoughts. But, i don't know aobut all th types of strokes enough to make a judgment call. Still sounds kind of off, though. May Nosir, can elaborate if there was a secondary issue that cased the pain, or osme more uncommonkindof stroke.
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My Mom had a TIA and Tommy's symptom's sound familiar. All the doc gave Mom was an ASPIRIN.
As far as a Massive Stoke- if the Pain was that terrible, I can't believe that they didn't give him something to bring down his blood pressure first- that is usually what causes the pain. If it was a massive stroke, I am surprised that he can even talk or move and TS should be thanking God that he is even alive and he should be willing to CRAWL
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I accidently hit Post(fat fingers) Tommy should be willing to crawl to the courtroom to confess his sins and make things right with these young men.
But I don't he will.
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I heard early this morning that TS died. Can anyone confirm this info, or squash this rumor?
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That is quite the startling rumour!!!!
I heard early this morning that TS died. Can anyone confirm this info, or squash this rumor?
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Nothing solid or legally binding, just basing my theory on very recent (today) business-as-usual Facebook postings, I do not think Mr. Shelton has expired.
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Nothing solid or legally binding, just basing my theory on very recent (today) business-as-usual Facebook postings, I do not think Mr. Shelton has expired.
Anyone have an update on TS's health or what actually happened? Is he back in VA?
Does TS have a Facebook page?
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Nothing solid or legally binding, just basing my theory on very recent (today) business-as-usual Facebook postings, I do not think Mr. Shelton has expired.
Anyone have an update on TS's health or what actually happened? Is he back in VA?
Does TS have a Facebook page?
Who knows. If he's so "stressed" I'd assume he wouldn't have time for FB. Still makes one wonder, if he's sure he's going to be found Innocent, why is he so stressed???? :hot:
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Adam, I would think that even if he believed he would be equitted of the charges, the huge amounts of changes and inconveniences to him and his family have to be stressful. If he believes he will be convicted, then there is even more stress. Either way, being falsely accused or massive amounts of retribution catching up with you after years of offenses, it's pretty stressful.
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Stressful.....on TS family and TS??????? What about "destruction" of other families??? Seems this amounts to stress coming from being exposed from hiding, "paying for sins" and giving up lifestyle.
Too bad -for his stress of "self inflictions" and where was his family to aid and :help: the sickness instead of :dunno: just cover it????? Should they not suffer at least stress for their "crimes"? Only one way to undo that bad stress, --truly repent and suffer the consequences. They are the ones that made it over the line and path of no return for their deeds except true repentance. I sort of look at TS family stress as "survival" with no penalities to their known crimes. The stress is actually for ones own self and not stress to know if we are pure in the sight of God. I have the latter stress.
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Tinka, there is pain on both sides. Even TS is in pain...hurting people, hurt others. That does not diminish any crimes he committed, just the reasoning behind it. I am a huge believer in you can be in pain, but bad behavior is not acceptable and punishable for sure. He should pay for crimes for which he is guilty, no matter the pain that caused him to inflict such horrific pain on others.
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I believe it is highly likely he has crossed the line of an unpardonable sin and if given half a chance he would do ot again, and again, and again. He is a predator.
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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GJ, there is no way we can know. Asking forgiveness in no quarantee against paying the consequences fo our sins. He very well be forgiven by God, but still he broke the law, there are still those consequences.
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For a minister of the Gospel, the predator would have to publicly confess his sins and ask forgiveness. And give up his credentials!!!
There is no evidence he has asked privately for forgiveness, nor is there any evidence he has in any way forsaken his ways.
I will dare to declare he is not yet ready to meet his maker or has crossed the line and committed the unpardonable sin and is a lost soul walking.
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
GJ, there is no way we can know. Asking forgiveness in no quarantee against paying the consequences fo our sins. He very well be forgiven by God, but still he broke the law, there are still those consequences.
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GJ, you lack the authority to make that judgement. That is not the way God works, with you sins or mine. There will be no evidence publicly, that he asked God's forgiveness. However, we do agree in that he does need to apologize to his victims, and definitely at this point the credentials should be revoked. He needs much help. however, all of this is most difficult when you and those around you have a vested interest in living in a state of denial.
For a minister of the Gospel, the predator would have to publicly confess his sins and ask forgiveness. And give up his credentials!!!
There is no evidence he has asked privately for forgiveness, nor is there any evidence he has in any way forsaken his ways.
I will dare to declare he is not yet ready to meet his maker or has crossed the line and committed the unpardonable sin and is a lost soul walking.
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
GJ, there is no way we can know. Asking forgiveness in no quarantee against paying the consequences fo our sins. He very well be forgiven by God, but still he broke the law, there are still those consequences.
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When are the trials to take place, Or have they been postponed again?
Mrst
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When are the trials to take place, Or have they been postponed again?
Mrst
My understanding is that there's supposed to be another status conference in early July to determine whether Tommy's health is such that the trial can proceed.
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Hey Gurl!! I have missed you! Glad to see you!
When are the trials to take place, Or have they been postponed again?
Mrst
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Hi Princess,
Sorry I haven't been on lately,, just been busy.. taking care of Mom. Her memory is shot, but her health is good. I have been looking into homes. I found one good one, still have one to check on..
Marriage is still really rocky.. He is talking about leaving, but I refuse to leave..I took a vow, for better or for worse and boy this is getting worse and worser :dunno: Keep praying...Our God is in the miracle business...
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Gurl, you are in my prayers. None of that is easy. Glad to see you back.
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- - - Keep praying...Our God is in the miracle business...
Thank you for these words of courage. Pray that God finds a way for you.
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I also want to be clear here: I do not know Tommy Shelton, nor do I hate him. To be completely honest I feel bad that he allowed himself to be placed in this situation. However, I am acquainted with a few of his victims. I have witnessed the pain and seen first hand what emotional and physical impact this has had on their lives. Especially in the last year. Prayer is needed on both sides. Prayer for the victims as well as Tommy and his family. I am well aware of the stress that both sides must be enduring. Yet, that does not relinquish the consequences that must be faced if a jury of Mr. Sheltons peers declare him guilty. I close with this towards Tommy: Mr. Shelton: my prayer and hope is that you truley are remorseful for your actions over the past 30 or so years. I also hope that you have indeed tried to correct your errors, and have not hurt others. A day of reckoning is coming, and I hope to see you on the other side, when we gather together and worship our Lord!
I do know Tommy and some of his victims since I was employed by 3ABN back in 1989 and 1990. I too wish for him to face up to what he has done and to make peace with God. I wish the same for Danny. However, in the case of Tommy and perhaps Danny, the law needs to step up and do something about it as well. May God heal those that Tommy and Danny abused no matter what the form the abuse took.
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Is a trial expected for tomorrow? ???
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Is a trial expected for tomorrow? ???
Status conference tomorrow on four charges or cases: Go to http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/circuitcourtdocket/Default.aspx (http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/circuitcourtdocket/Default.aspx) and search by party name, and go to page 2:
Shelton, Tommy FE-2010-0000786 4E 7/8/2011 9:00:00 AM Status Hearing (Criminal)
Shelton, Tommy FE-2010-0000787 4E 7/8/2011 9:00:00 AM Status Hearing (Criminal)
Shelton, Tommy FE-2010-0001987 4E 7/8/2011 9:00:00 AM Status Hearing (Criminal)
Shelton, Tommy FE-2010-0001988 4E 7/8/2011 9:00:00 AM Status Hearing (Criminal)
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Interesting that Tommy Shelton will be undergoing his criminal trial for child molestation while SDA world leader Elder Wilson is visiting with 3ABN.
That is, if Tommy doesn't have a heart attack or stroke first.
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Praying for the wheels of justice to begin moving again... some folks need closure so they can take their lives off of "pause".
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What is this about trials tommorow? I called Alex today and he said there isn't any trials upcoming. He suggested the trials would not take place til probably early next year. He will not know for sure until he speaks with the prosecutor tomorrow.
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Adam, you're right, it is not a "trial" - my bad.... it is the "status hearing" to see if TS is in sufficiently good health to proceed with the trial, since it was derailed earlier by his stroke.
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Is a trial expected for tomorrow? ???
Status conference tomorrow on four charges or cases: Go to http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/circuitcourtdocket/Default.aspx (http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/circuitcourtdocket/Default.aspx) and search by party name, and go to page 2:
Shelton, Tommy FE-2010-0000786 4E 7/8/2011 9:00:00 AM Status Hearing (Criminal)
Shelton, Tommy FE-2010-0000787 4E 7/8/2011 9:00:00 AM Status Hearing (Criminal)
Shelton, Tommy FE-2010-0001987 4E 7/8/2011 9:00:00 AM Status Hearing (Criminal)
Shelton, Tommy FE-2010-0001988 4E 7/8/2011 9:00:00 AM Status Hearing (Criminal)
The status hearing has been continued to Friday, July 29.
Four cases appeared on today's docket. The two additional cases (FE-2010-0001987 and FE-2010-0001988) are re-indictments of counts which as part of the July 2010 plea agreement the Assistant Commonwealth's Attorney had asked not be prosecuted.
Apparently, Tommy Shelton's attorney reported to the judge that the additional time will facilitate a more accurate assessment of his health.
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This could take forever like the lawsuit against Joy & Pickle did.
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This could take forever like the lawsuit against Joy & Pickle did.
... is.
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Tommy Shelton's jury trials are now rescheduled, one to take place Monday, January 23, 2012, 10 AM (allegations by Dennis Turley) and the other to take place Monday, January 30, 2012, 10 AM (allegations by Alex Walker).
Ms. Stott (assistant Commonwealth atty.) said the Circuit Court judge had to set the cases all the way into next year because of "calendar conflicts" on the part of Tommy's attorneys.
Four cases involving Tommy Shelton appeared on today's docket. Ms. Stott has explained the two additional cases (FE-2010-0001987 and FE-2010-0001988) are re-indictments of counts which as part of the July 2010 plea agreement she had asked not be prosecuted.
Allegations by Dennis Turley:
Case # FE-2010-0000786
Case # FE-2010-0001987
Allegations by Alex Walker:
Case # FE-2010-0000787
Case # FE-2010-0001988
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Well this is news to me. First time I have heard any of this info. May I ask who your source is, or you can PM it to me. Thank you.
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Well this is news to me. First time I have heard any of this info. May I ask who your source is, or you can PM it to me. Thank you.
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ok,see PM but I imagine it is a matter of public record....