Theology Category > Doctrinal Discussions
Doug Bachelor Preaches Against Women Pastors & Elders
Johann:
"And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry."--RH, July 26, 1906.{DG 252.4}
"In the city of Portland the Lord ordained me as His messenger, and here my first labors were given to the cause of present truth."--RH, May 18, 1911.{DG 252.5}
Murcielago:
EGW had no problem with reproving the men of the church when they did something wrong, yet she never reproved them for ordaining her or any of the other women who served as ordained pastors of the SDA church during her life. Indeed, it was not until after her death that the men of the church proceeded to officially bar women from ministry and other positions of authority, based upon their gender alone. I think it is somewhat hard to show that she disapproved of something that she accepted for herself and many other women, and that she never said she disapproved of.
tinka:
Thank you Johann for putting that up there. I was about wore out yesterday. But here again, we must watch the wording exactly and what it means. "She was chosen, she was ordained for a "messenger" it does not say the word "preacher", "pastor". She performed as she was instructed. I believe she was too humble to decide what "God would have or instruct somebody else". So she stayed away from direct comment as she was shown another way. I wished I could say words better to what I mean.
The only thing I can read into this is for the words available is that she did not reprehend or give embarrassment back for a believeling good gesture on the part of the church even tho through out she told of a higher calling for women and their God given abilities that backed their family, husband, home wellfare. The church alone did this as a good gesture but you saw then after this document the reasoning why the church did finally take the stand they did. She did not blast them or condemn them but steadily gave a soft continual answer to what a woman should be doing. Now the church or woman want to go back and try it again.
also, look what the church approves today that is seen and completely discarded by woman doing their thing again. Most of our woman now dress like men. What happened there too? Most woman after a certain age look awful and no one tells them that their lines from behind is outright vulgar. Women have discarded SP worse then the men. If you do not believe this, here is another point why. the woman today run after all the equal woman's rights in the job place...and look what it did to the younger generation. Has anybody noticed?? EGW then comes straight out and says. She does not run after the woman's movement that is then taking place. this is her direct comment! I understand what she is saying. That is good enough for me and I could fill the posts up with all statements. I thought she handled it well. The Church did follow for a time period but look at it now. Watch Family Reunion. What in the world are these woman thinking?
I have lived my life to the best I can for the service of my family, and many many others and have taught my children the same. I have been mostly a homemaker, and helped my husband in business with all book work and actual labor for the business when needed and many people that worked for us. I have been taught by my mother, worked in dorcas for many years and my life has been very fulfilling. I do not like men's jobs. I do not know which is worse. Men not supporting their children and causing women to work or women having the children and putting them away with a husband that does work. i take care of my husband so he looks good and feels good as my children love him very much. and with todays menu in the market it is best to grow and prepare your own things. So we have had heavy date time in the garden. I will never forget. A Son in Law wrote a funny poem of us in the "Garden" I posted it on here in the recipe section. Never really spoke out except in Sabbath School as I have been too busy until I have looked up and saw it seems apostasy happening in almost all directions and within. But I know what time it is but now inspired as "He is coming".
Thanks again Johann and I want to look where your coming from in questions maybe tonight. Garden time is almost here again (smile)
princessdi:
Exactly, George. I had all of this information somewhere. I will have to check BSDA. Included in that was at least one letter written to EGW for her counsel on the ordination of women, to which she never had chance to respond. She was effectively silent on the issue. and seeing as there were quite a few women serving as ordained pastors,she had plenty of time and opportunity to give her thoughts on it.
Also, Tinka, you cannot limit God. I talked about Deborah, but there was also Miriam who was a prophetess. God chooses whom he pleases to serve and how. God chose EGW, and we believe that she was in spiritual authority even over GC itself. The church made it's doctrines from her words. Why would God care about a woman being a pastor? Why would He place a woman at that level of authority, and then have no women be pastors? it makes no sense. I believe we miss man blessings, signs and guidance from God, because we are stuck on what manner or package the message comes. Effectively, telling God we will only accept his Word coming from this person, or that person.
--- Quote from: George on March 23, 2010, 08:55:11 PM ---EGW had no problem with reproving the men of the church when they did something wrong, yet she never reproved them for ordaining her or any of the other women who served as ordained pastors of the SDA church during her life. Indeed, it was not until after her death that the men of the church proceeded to officially bar women from ministry and other positions of authority, based upon their gender alone. I think it is somewhat hard to show that she disapproved of something that she accepted for herself and many other women, and that she never said she disapproved of.
--- End quote ---
tinka:
Di,
sorry to differ but she in no way claimed that the doctrine of the church was made by her words or ever intended it. Those are peoples accusations. She was enlightened to give finer detail to the doctrine that was Biblical already for better understanding. When people come across with this I automatically know they have not read in consistency. I have spent years getting to know her from her writings, and made it my duty to understand her sentence after sentence, book after book and cover to cover. I either had to believe or disbelieve. One can make any kind of theory of opinions and cannot be out spoken on the matters unless they have done the homework on it. This is no time for guessing at this late date. I know when she is misquoted or misstated instantly. The Reformers are very good at that. She had some humor at times and so did I think the angels did too.
Her "ministry" was given for her faithfulness,and humbleness. It is like the word "ministry" ordained for her ministry. Her ministry could have been anything. Like LS ministry is music. She was ordained to be trusted with visions, writing and presenting what was shown. She did not claim to be a prophet, but the church and myself included feel for sure she was and state it. So our statements do not reflect anything that she claims because the church viewed it that way. The church claimed to give her credentials but no where does she claim she is that nor takes the position of doing a pastors duties. You must understand her or you can't begin to put it all together. The Churches from all different cultures and area does a lot under either liberal or conservative or cultural beliefs without even caring really what she has said in the history of the beginning of the SDA faith. It is obvious to just look around and see. I know one church that does not believe in having any thing at all brought up in church of any SP. So when it gets down to it, women just need to go out and do their thing and don't worry about any ones recalling what was written in inspiration -- as this is the new age --please the public and forget the ol ways as you see the people do what they want regardless and it is evident to be seen. We or they have had enough years already to get it together- but justifications of our own ways is prevalent. all you do is sit in SS and hear it. I think the time is about done for opinionated theories and where women should be preachers. In this age anything goes and women can do and be anything they want. even lady boxers, and wrestlers. It's all justified by ones own view.
If you can say that you read every book cover to cover and in all the right context that she speaks then maybe you can bring to lite how she agreed to this. I do not make my own justifications of any theory,and yet do not claim that my every theory of what I read is right but always I am all ears to listen or study or see new connections that match.
Doug B. is correct in his presentation beyond doubt. and I have listened to him before but did not get to hear him this time. The scripture was enough evidence he presented before. There is also another fact, you cannot change a liberal in justifications of trying to find ways to make all things right to their wants or opinions. If women are supposed to be preachers I want documents, biblical reference other then what I know is there. Just because God used women in Biblical days, as leaders, judges or whatever you can find He chose to use EGW in our day does not state anywhere that women are to be ordained preachers. When I got into her writings, I went in with open mind to accept what was truth as she fills in the finer details. I never ever found her to contradict and backtrack. and took slowly what she presented and how she did it. She made me laugh at times for the common sense she used. I love her writings and grew to almost think I know her as her trials and everyday applications were very vivid to me.
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