Theology Category > Doctrinal Discussions
Doug Bachelor Preaches Against Women Pastors & Elders
tinka:
You will also see in this where church sometimes do their own thing and not the writing of EGW as shown below with quotes around "preaching credentials". Just like the wearing now of wedding rings in church manuel. No, EGW did not except preaching credentials although it was voted to give to her. Unless I am reading something wrong here. This came from voting and not EGW suggestions or writings.
Appendix C - Exhibits Relating to the Ordination of Women
From the Lifetime and Experience of Ellen G. White
A PAPER PRESENTED AT THE MINISTERIAL MEETING AT THE 1990 GENERAL CONFERENCE SESSION. PREPARED BY THE WHITE ESTATE STAFF. {DG 248.1}
1. A RESOLUTION TO ORDAIN WOMEN WAS DISCUSSED AT THE GENERAL CONFERENCE OF 1881. NO ACTION WAS TAKEN. THE MINUTES INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING LINES: {DG 248.2}
"RESOLVED, THAT FEMALES POSSESSING THE NECESSARY QUALIFICATIONS TO FILL THAT POSITION MAY, WITH PERFECT PROPRIETY, BE SET APART BY ORDINATION TO THE WORK OF THE CHRISTIAN MINISTRY. {DG 248.3}
"THIS WAS DISCUSSED BY J. O. CORLISS, A. C. BOURDEAU, E. R. JONES, D. H. LAMSON, W. H. LITTLEJOHN, A. S. HUTCHINS, D. M. CANRIGHT, AND J. N. LOUGHBOROUGH, AND REFERRED TO THE GENERAL CONFERENCE COMMITTEE."--RH, DEC. 20, 1881.{DG 248.4}
ELLEN WHITE DID NOT ATTEND THE GENERAL CONFERENCE OF 1881. HER HUSBAND DIED ON AUGUST 6 OF THAT YEAR. TWO WEEKS AFTER HIS DEATH SHE LEFT BATTLE CREEK, BOUND FOR CALIFORNIA. SHE DID NOT RETURN TO MICHIGAN UNTIL AUGUST OF 1883.{DG 248.5}
2. FOR MANY YEARS ELLEN WHITE WAS VOTED MINISTERIAL CREDENTIALS BY THE MICHIGAN CONFERENCE (SEE E.G. RH, SEPT. 10, 1872),
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AND THEN LATER BY THE GENERAL CONFERENCE. HOWEVER, SHE WAS NEVER ORDAINED BY HUMAN HANDS, NOR DID SHE EVER PERFORM A WEDDING, ORGANIZE A CHURCH, OR CONDUCT A BAPTISM.{DG 248.6}
3. IN 1895 ELLEN WHITE RECOMMENDED THE ORDINATION OF WOMEN WHO WOULD GIVE THEMSELVES TO A DEACONESS-TYPE OF WORK:{DG 249.1}
"Women who are willing to consecrate some of their time to the service of the Lord should be appointed to visit the sick, look after the young, and minister to the necessities of the poor. They should be set apart to this work by prayer and laying on of hands. In some cases they will need to counsel with the church officers or the minister; but if they are devoted women, maintaining a vital connection with God, they will be a power for good in the church. This is another means of strengthening and building up the church."--RH, July 9, 1895.{DG 249.2}
A NUMBER OF WOMEN WERE ORDAINED AS DEACONESSES DURING ELLEN WHITE'S AUSTRALIAN MINISTRY. ON AUGUST 10, 1895, THE NOMINATING COMMITTEE AT THE ASHFIELD CHURCH IN SYDNEY RENDERED ITS REPORT, WHICH WAS APPROVED. THE CLERK'S MINUTES FOR THAT DATE STATE: "IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THE ELECTION, THE OFFICERS WERE CALLED TO THE FRONT WHERE PASTORS CORLISS AND MCCULLAGH SET APART THE ELDER, DEACONS, [AND] DEACONESSES BY PRAYER AND THE LAYING ON OF HANDS."{DG 249.3}
SEVERAL YEARS LATER, IN THE SAME CHURCH, W. C. WHITE OFFICIATED AT THE ORDINATION OF THE CHURCH OFFICERS. THE MINUTES OF THE ASHFIELD CHURCH FOR JANUARY 7, 1900, STATE: "THE PREVIOUS SABBATH OFFICERS HAD BEEN NOMINATED AND ACCEPTED FOR THE CURRENT YEAR, AND TODAY ELDER WHITE ORDAINED AND LAID HANDS ON THE ELDERS, DEACON, AND DEACONESSES.--AR, JAN. 16, 1986.{DG 249.4}
4. WOMEN "LICENSED TO PREACH" BY THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH DURING ELLEN WHITE'S LIFETIME INCLUDED THE FOLLOWING:
1878 ANNA FULTON MINNESOTA
ELLEN S. LANE MICHIGAN
JULIA OWEN KENTUCKY-TENNESSEE
1879 LIBBIE COLLINS MINNESOTA
HATTIE ENOCH KANSAS
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LIBBIE FULTON MINNESOTA
LIZZIE POST MINNESOTA
1880 ANNA JOHNSON MINNESOTA
1881 IDA W. BALLENGER ILLINOIS
HELEN L. MORSE ILLINOIS
1884 RUIE HILL KANSAS
1886 IDA W. HIBBEN ILLINOIS
1887 MRS. S. E. PIERCE VERMONT
1893 FLORA PLUMMER IOWA
1894 MARGARET CARO NEW ZEALAND
1895 MRS. S. A. LINDSAY NEW YORK
1898 SAREPTA IRISH HENRY GEN. CONF.
LULU WIGHTMAN NEW YORK
1899 EDITH BARTLETT BRITISH CONF.
1900 HETTY HASKELL GEN. CONF.
MINA ROBINSON BRITISH CONF.
1901 CARRIE V. HANSEN UTAH
EMMA HAWKINS IOWA
MRS. E. R. WILLIAMS MICHIGAN
1902 MRS. S. N. HASKELL GREATER NY
MINNIE SYPE OKLAHOMA
1904 ALMA BJDIGG FINLAND MISSION
MRS. J. E. BOND ARIZONA
BERTHA E. JORGENSEN SOUTH DAKOTA
1910 PEARL FIELD NEBRASKA
MRS. URA SPRING NEBRASKA
--GENERAL CONFERENCE ARCHIVES AND SDA YEARBOOKS {DG 249.5}
SOME OF THE WOMEN LISTED ABOVE WERE EMPLOYED BY THE CHURCH. OTHERS, SUCH AS MARGARET CARO, WHO WAS A DENTIST, WERE SELF-SUPPORTING.{DG 250.1}
5. ELLEN WHITE MADE THREE STATEMENTS WHICH ARE SOMETIMES CONSTRUED AS EVIDENCE THAT SHE SUPPORTED THE CONCEPT OF WOMEN AS ORDAINED GOSPEL MINISTERS.{DG 250.2} IN 1898 SHE DECLARED THAT "there are women who should labor in the
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gospel ministry" (Ev 472). THE CONTEXT OF THIS STATEMENT SEEMS TO INDICATE THAT SHE IS SPEAKING OF MINISTERS' WIVES. SHE WROTE:{DG 250.3}
"Letters have come to me from several, asking my advice upon the question, Should ministes' wives adopt infant children? Would I advise them to do this kind of work. To some who were regarding this matter favorably, I answered, No; God would have you help your husband in his work. The Lord has not given you children of your own; His wisdom is not to be questioned. He knows what is best. Consecrate your powers to God as a Christian worker. You can help your husband in many ways. . . .{DG 251.1}
"There are women who should labor in the gospel ministry. In many respects they would do more good than the ministers who neglect to visit the flock of God. Husband and wife may unite in this work, and when it is possible, they should. The way is open for consecrated women. But the enemy would be pleased to have the women whom God could use to help hundreds binding up their time and strength on one helpless little mortal that requires constant care and attention."--5MR 325, 326.{DG 251.2}
IN THE YEAR 1900 ELLEN WHITE PUBLISHED TESTIMONIES, VOLUME 6, WHICH INCLUDES A SECTION TITLED "THE CANVASSER A GOSPEL WORKER." HERE THE AUTHOR STATES:{DG 251.3}
"All who desire an opportunity for true ministry, and who will give themselves unreservedly to God, will find in the canvassing work opportunities to speak upon many things pertaining to the future, immortal life. The experience thus gained will be of the greatest value to those who are fitting themselves for the ministry. It is the accompaniment of the Holy Spirit of God that prepares workers, both men and women, to become pastors to the flock of God."--6T 322.{DG 251.4}
FINALLY, IN SEPTEMBER 1903 ELLEN WHITE WROTE:
"The Lord calls upon those connected with our sanitariums, publishing houses, and schools to teach the youth to do evangelistic work. Our time and energy must not be so largely employed in establishing sanitariums, food stores, and restaurants that other lines of work will be neglected. Young men and young women who should be engaged in the ministry, in Bible work, and in the canvassing work should not be bound down to mechanical employment. {DG 251.5}
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"The youth should be encouraged to attend our training schools for Christian workers, which should become more and more like the schools of the prophets. These institutions have been established by the Lord, and if they are conducted in harmony with His purpose, the youth sent to them will quickly be prepared to engage in various lines of missionary work. Some will be trained to enter the field as missionary nurses, some as canvassers, and some as gospel ministers."--8T 229, 230.{DG 252.1}
6. ELLEN WHITE MADE TWO STATEMENTS ABOUT HER OWN CALL TO SERVE THE LORD AS HIS MESSENGER. SHE DECLARED:{DG 252.2} "At the age of 78 I am still toiling. We are all in the hands of the Lord. I trust in Him; for I know that He will never leave nor forsake those who put their trust in Him. I have committed myself to His keeping.{DG 252.3}
"And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry."--RH, July 26, 1906.{DG 252.4}
"In the city of Portland the Lord ordained me as His messenger, and here my first labors were given to the cause of present truth."--RH, May 18, 1911.{DG 252.5}
IT WILL BE RECALLED THAT ELLEN WHITE WAS GIVEN HER FIRST VISION IN DECEMBER 1844, IN PORTLAND, MAINE. SHORTLY THEREAFTER SHE WAS PROMPTED BY THE LORD TO TELL OTHERS WHAT SHE HAD SEEN.{DG 252.6}
7. ELLEN WHITE DID NOT CONCERN HERSELF WITH WOMEN'S RIGHTS MOVEMENTS. WHEN SHE WAS URGED TO JOIN OTHERS IN THE CRUSADE FOR WOMEN'S SUFFRAGE, SHE DECLINED THE INVITATION. SHE WROTE TO HER HUSBAND:{DG 252.7}
Murcielago:
Very interesting documentation. Thank you for posting it, Tinka. It represents a lot of our history. I still don't see where EGW disapproved of the ordination of women, though. She apparently didn't seek ordination, but she obviously didn't decline it either. She was notorious for reproving and stopping the men of the church when they took an action of which she disapproved, and she never did that over over her own ordination, and I am unaware of any instance where she did it regarding the ordination of any other woman.
tinka:
There is tons of places she states what the sons and daughters best abilities are for the work or ministry of God. It always states teacher, deaconesses, help their husbands ministry but never does she state it is ok. If she did she would have to contradict herself in placing the women of highest regard for the welfare of family. She did state if it took going away to help her husband and if you had very good caregiver for short time was exceptable. Think of this scenario, her husband was a minister. God gave her the visions and abilities to write as God knew her humbleness and determination to help her husband as he had the labor end of it and her the messages and by doing with that attitude gave her more and more light. Never did she go for the limelight. She gave her messages. Her husband labored hard for it.
Johann:
Some questions to stir up your pure [poor] minds:
1. Where in Scripture does it say that a pastor should be ordained?
2. What Scripture do we use when we ordain deacons?
3. Does it say that the deacons should be ordained?
4. What is the Scriptural difference between Apostles, ministers, deacons, deaconesses, elders, pastors, bishops?
5. From where do we get the distinction?
I have some more questions, but I'll wait. . .
tinka:
Right on Johann,
It's man that seeks the titles, EGW did not nor even give hardly any recognition to any maybe a time but as we watch the church does many things that are not as we are supposed to do. We cannot look to the church organizations always being right on their boards when our last messages are not used.
That is what I am starting to see on Hope Channel too along of course mixed with good.
3abn made up their own thing to do and look what happened!!!
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