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[Adam]

Princessdi, my dear friend.

Why would anyone take Glenn Dryden's word as credible? The whole time that he was acting that he was on the side of the "victims" he was enpowering tommy to continue pastoring.

I'm going to share this story with permission of course.

I was told that at the hearing that Tommy plead guilty - He (Glenn) sent a member of his board there. His name is Keith Jacobs. Keith Jacobs came up to the two victims shook their hand and told them, "I am here to support you all." --- Now listen to this!!! Immediately after he said that- he went over and hugged Tommy- and sat by Tommy the entire wait for the hearing to start. Immediately after the hearing was over guess who was hugging and next to Tommy again? Yours Truely Keith Jacobs.

Can you imagine how that made the two victims feel? Here is a guy that claims to be on their side. Possibly says two words to them, then is over kissing Tommy's back end.

Make sense? Of course it don't. This is the type of pople that are attending that church. Hyppocrits!!!! And their pastor is the biggest one!

[Johann]

Meanwhile - hey, Thanksgiving, right? Am thankful for the gift of free speech! xoxo

"Give me Liberty, or give me Death!" is a famous quotation attributed to Patrick Henry from a speech he made to the Virginia Convention. It was given on March 23, 1775, at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia, and is credited with having swung the balance in convincing the Virginia  House of Burgesses to pass a resolution delivering the Virginia troops to the Revolutionary War. Among the delegates to the convention were future US Presidents Thomas Jefferson and George Washington. Reportedly, those in attendance, upon hearing the speech, shouted, "give me liberty or give me death!" - Wikipedia

"God Bless America" is an American  patriotic song written by Irving Berlin in 1918 and revised by him in 1938, as sung by Kate Smith (becoming her signature song).

"God Bless America" takes the form of a prayer (intro lyrics "as we raise our voices, in a solemn prayer") for God's blessing and peace for the nation ("...stand beside her and guide her through the night...").

What makes America such a great nation?

[Adam]

One more question for Pastor Dryden. Are you going to sue me? Please do.

[princessdi]

Why are you, Adam and Duane, assuming that all counselors have not "walked in your shoes"?   I completely understand your point.  I tell people all the time I take no advice about being single from someone who has been married for any decent amount of time.  So I know what you mean.  However, in this case, it can be very well that the counselor has been abused.  A little realized fact is that many counselors/psychologist/pyschariatist are led to that profession from "working through their own stuff".

I have to disagree with you, Duane, it is not like slapping God in the face.  He places "help" for us here on earth all the time.  it is the reason why the Bible puts so much emphasis on encouraging, upholding each other, bearing one another's burdens, and fellowship, while it also says that we have encourage ourselves.  There is a time and season fro everything.  Somethings we work out with God and God alone, others times He sends one of His children who are trained, educated, spiritually gifted and/or a personal testimony to help us.  It seems to me that it is actually you who is dictating to God in which way you will accept His help, limiting His ability to actually help you when He actually has limitless resources.

Now, I understand that you are happy just where you are, but just some thoughts for you to ponder.  Hopefully this will be my last word on this matter as I am not trying to coerce you into going to see a counselor.  

ROFL!!!! Educated? Pleasssssssssseeeeeeeee. How can you be an "expert" on something you have never experienced?

That is the same as a pastor saying he's an expert on "marriage counceling" when he's never been married!

The same is true of these "self proclaimed experts" on sex abuse. Until you have walked in a victims shoes, I'm sorry, but you're no expert.

[Johann]

Veritas vos liberabit, my friend!

Veritas vos liberabit (Latin) is a variant of Veritas liberabit vos (the truth shall set you free), verse 8:32 of the Gospel of John.

[Adam]

Di...

Seriously....Most counselors are nothing but frauds. Trust me, I've dealt with my share of them. Most of these "Proclaimed educated experts" are nothing but full blooded full steam a head psychopaths.

[princessdi]

LOL!!! You don't need to run for cover, Murcielago.  That should be a point well taken!  

I have to agree that the term and training for (counselors) has become...shall we say..interesting in the past 20 years or so.  I have seen(not for personal issues, Thanks God!) some folks who say they have certification in counselling, and it was nothing nice.

That having been said, the only counselor I have ever been to was deplorable. He is a pastor who also holds some form of certification as a counselor. On the other hand, I heard a pastor, who also has a degree in counseling, make the statement that "it's better to be single than to wish you were." A very wise word of counsel for sure! Lol.

Ummmm, and many of the OB/Gyns I know, being men, have never had the experience of pregnancy. (Lol... I had to throw that in there. [Ducking and running for cover!!!])

[princessdi]

Expand your horizons, Adam.  Not most, just the ones you were unfortunate enough to run into.  I know what you mean.  The first psychiatrist who ran into the women whose story is well known as "Three Faces of Eve' only exploited her, did not help, and in fact created several more personalities from the exploitation.  Not that there aren't frauds out there, but there are some good people, also(Iknow a few of them).  That is why I directed you to Oprah's site.  They have resources, and people who are checked out with experience in this matter.  I forgot to mention that I alsot hought that they said that there were some website where you can just talk with other surviving victims. 

Di...

Seriously....Most counselors are nothing but frauds. Trust me, I've dealt with my share of them. Most of these "Proclaimed educated experts" are nothing but full blooded full steam a head psychopaths.

[Johann]

Di...

Seriously....Most counselors are nothing but frauds. Trust me, I've dealt with my share of them. Most of these "Proclaimed educated experts" are nothing but full blooded full steam a head psychopaths.

We all have different experiences - and in the United States of America - thank God - we have the liberty to tell others what we have experienced. However, the American law of Liberty forbids me to force my opinion of my encounters upon the conscience of another person. This is based  on the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[Adam]

Di...

Seriously....Most counselors are nothing but frauds. Trust me, I've dealt with my share of them. Most of these "Proclaimed educated experts" are nothing but full blooded full steam a head psychopaths.

We all have different experiences - and in the United States of America - thank God - we have the liberty to tell others what we have experienced. However, the American law of Liberty forbids me to force my opinion of my encounters upon the conscience of another person. This is based  on the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Johann my dear friend:

I agree with your statement. However, I am at lost at what the last part is meaning. Is it fair to say that my discouragement of these "low lifes" is the same as others encouragment to visit them?

Thanks.

[princessdi]

No Adam.  Put bluntly, but lovingly, is that you call counselors/psschiatrist/psychologist "low-lifes" when you have only had experience with a few in comparison to the thousands, maybe millions that are out there. 

As an alternative, you can, say "the counselors I have tried have all been frauds, so I am reluctant to try again. 

[Johann]

Di...

Seriously....Most counselors are nothing but frauds. Trust me, I've dealt with my share of them. Most of these "Proclaimed educated experts" are nothing but full blooded full steam a head psychopaths.

We all have different experiences - and in the United States of America - thank God - we have the liberty to tell others what we have experienced. However, the American law of Liberty forbids me to force my opinion of my encounters upon the conscience of another person. This is based  on the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Johann my dear friend:

I agree with your statement. However, I am at lost at what the last part is meaning. Is it fair to say that my discouragement of these "low lifes" is the same as others encouragment to visit them?

Thanks.

On my first visit to New York City I got cheated by a merchant who sold me a shirt (the year was 1952). Does that mean I can force you to believe that all traders in New York are evil?

I have a friend who can't stand McDonald's. Does that mean I either have to oppose him or agree with him in order to remain his friend?

I also have a very good friend who believes firmly in infant baptism. Should I ask the police to remove him from my vicinity unless he changes his conviction?

And then there are good friends I have who were sexually molested by a member of the family and they received a great spiritual blessing by talking to a counsellor. That counsellor was also a Lutheran pastor. Should I now, years later, ask them to remove any help they received at that time because they should never have talked to any counsellor - or that they should have gone to a pastor of their own church? (I am not revealing a secret because the story has been published - told by one of the victims.)

[Bob Pickle]

One thing we need to think about from time to time is what will we do if those who have done us wrong repent and end up in heaven. Will we still want to go? How will Stephen relate to Saul of Tarsus, who was to blame for Stephen's death, and Stephen knew it?

I guess the greatest example of that kind of thing is Christ Himself. I drove the nails into His hands, as it were. How could He ever stand to be around me throughout eternity?

BOB!!! Seriously, stop!

I know where your going with this....

It's the truth. And I had to deal with something akin to this when I was in high school.

[Adam]

Di...

Seriously....Most counselors are nothing but frauds. Trust me, I've dealt with my share of them. Most of these "Proclaimed educated experts" are nothing but full blooded full steam a head psychopaths.

We all have different experiences - and in the United States of America - thank God - we have the liberty to tell others what we have experienced. However, the American law of Liberty forbids me to force my opinion of my encounters upon the conscience of another person. This is based  on the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Johann my dear friend:

I agree with your statement. However, I am at lost at what the last part is meaning. Is it fair to say that my discouragement of these "low lifes" is the same as others encouragment to visit them?

Thanks.

On my first visit to New York City I got cheated by a merchant who sold me a shirt (the year was 1952). Does that mean I can force you to believe that all traders in New York are evil?

I have a friend who can't stand McDonald's. Does that mean I either have to oppose him or agree with him in order to remain his friend?

I also have a very good friend who believes firmly in infant baptism. Should I ask the police to remove him from my vicinity unless he changes his conviction?

And then there are good friends I have who were sexually molested by a member of the family and they received a great spiritual blessing by talking to a counsellor. That counsellor was also a Lutheran pastor. Should I now, years later, ask them to remove any help they received at that time because they should never have talked to any counsellor - or that they should have gone to a pastor of their own church? (I am not revealing a secret because the story has been published - told by one of the victims.)

Johann my dear friend:

You failed to answer my question.

[Johann]

Di...

Seriously....Most counselors are nothing but frauds. Trust me, I've dealt with my share of them. Most of these "Proclaimed educated experts" are nothing but full blooded full steam a head psychopaths.

We all have different experiences - and in the United States of America - thank God - we have the liberty to tell others what we have experienced. However, the American law of Liberty forbids me to force my opinion of my encounters upon the conscience of another person. This is based  on the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Johann my dear friend:

I agree with your statement. However, I am at lost at what the last part is meaning. Is it fair to say that my discouragement of these "low lifes" is the same as others encouragment to visit them?

Thanks.

On my first visit to New York City I got cheated by a merchant who sold me a shirt (the year was 1952). Does that mean I can force you to believe that all traders in New York are evil?

I have a friend who can't stand McDonald's. Does that mean I either have to oppose him or agree with him in order to remain his friend?

I also have a very good friend who believes firmly in infant baptism. Should I ask the police to remove him from my vicinity unless he changes his conviction?

And then there are good friends I have who were sexually molested by a member of the family and they received a great spiritual blessing by talking to a counsellor. That counsellor was also a Lutheran pastor. Should I now, years later, ask them to remove any help they received at that time because they should never have talked to any counsellor - or that they should have gone to a pastor of their own church? (I am not revealing a secret because the story has been published - told by one of the victims.)

Johann my dear friend:

You failed to answer my question.

Perables to help you see the larger picture. . . Shall I give you a few more, my friend?