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[SDAminister]

Dear Leona,
In Western societies and in Seventh-day Adventism, we can no longer tolerate people who dream up doctrines without a plain thus saith the Lord. The beating of your drum is heard but we shall not follow its calling.
"Why not", you ask?

Here's why:
"Again and again did Wm. Miller [Like the reformers] urge that if his doctrine were false, he should be shown his error from the Scriptures. In an address to Christians of all denominations he wrote: “What have we believed that we have not been commanded to believe by the word of God, which you yourselves allow is the rule and the only rule of our faith and practice? What have we done that should call down such virulent denunciations against us from pulpit and press, and give you just cause to exclude us (Adventists) from your churches and fellowship?” “If we are wrong, pray show us wherein consists our wrong. Show us from the word of God that we are in error; we have had ridicule enough; that can never convince us that we are in the wrong; the word of God alone can change our views. Our conclusions have been formed deliberately and prayerfully, as we have seen the evidence in the Scriptures.” Spirit of Prophecy V4. p 217

And so, Ms Running, it appears you are on the wrong side of a SOP quote. Come on Leona, where is your Bible proof? It is hard for thee to kick at the pricks. And the largest prick, the Sword, i.e. the Word, is not easily defeated by your musings.

It's amazing how such an intelligent woman such as you would try and stoop to referring to diatribes such as The Welcome Table as a reference work in this discussion. How sad that such an eminent Biblical scholar (or, perhaps more accurately "Biblical Languages Scholar" ----- big difference!)  such as you would fall for or even be a part of the higher-critical method of Biblical interpretation such as is seen in The Welcome Table. Again, I understand that you're not a Bible scholar, merely a teacher of ancient languages.

But be not amiss, we all know you come from the rabid feminist camp of way-out-there left-wing liberal Adventism. Thusly, we should expect nothing less than this kind of sad letter from you to your President.

"Through the years, Dr.Running has vocally and financially supported the idea of women
ministry. Her students have listened to her wax eloquent on the topic. She constantly seeks
to encourage women in their endeavors and to help men see the need for the participation
of women in church activities at all levels. Because of her reserved demeanor, several of
her former students remember their shock and glee when she came to class one day wearing a
T-shirt emblazoned with the words,“A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.”"
www.andrews.edu/sem/article.php?id=110

Tell me when to laugh Leona, because I think I missed the joke....

And like William Miller said, we're tired of your ridicule.
SDAminister

[Gregory]

Dr. Running was willing to put her name and reputation on the line in writting her open letter to President Wilson.  You would have earned more respect if you had openly attached your name and reputation to your open letter.  You see, there is a sense in which a letter is not an open one when the author fails to give his/her true name.

By the way, your comments about her academic background are incorrect.  If you read and understood her signature block at the end of the letter, would have been informed that she has two (2) earned doctorates.  The DHL is an earned doctorate.  In general terms it has the same criteria as does a PhD.

It seems to me that accuracy is not high with you--E.G your comments about me and susentation.

[Gregory]

There is a school of thought that says that one is not a theologian unless one has a ThD.  By that criteria,most of those academics who are held in high estem by conservative Adventists could not be called theologians.

[SDAminister]

Dr. Running was willing to put her name and reputation on the line in writting her open letter to President Wilson.  You would have earned more respect if you had openly attached your name and reputation to your open letter.

By the way, your comments about her academic background are incorrect.  If you read and understood her signature block at the end of the letter, would have been informed that she has two (2) earned doctorates.  The DHL is an earned doctorate.  In general terms it has the same criteria as does a PhD.

It seems to me that accuracy is not high with you--E.G your comments about me and susentation.

Methinks Leona's reputation is taking the greater hit, not mine. I have none. I am nameless and faceless. My nom de plume is my license to freedom. The fact that you don't know who I am may infuriate you. Pen names are allowed in this forum and you cannot fault someone here for using one. If you don't like the rules of this forum, go elsewhere.

But I do not seek your respect. Again, I repeat Wm Miller, "Show us from the Word of God where we are wrong..." Until such time, your ridicule is thoughtlessly ignored.

Now, if I may drop some knowledge on you: I did not misstate Dr. Running's academic background. I stated it exactly as it is listed on the Andrews Univ./Seminary website. http://www.andrews.edu/sem/article.php?id=110&action=print

Regarding her DHL: Which institution granted it? What was her research in? How many years did it take to complete? Is her thesis on file somewhere?
Why does she list her DHL in her letter but not on her page at Andrews?
I may be wrong, but I've never, ever heard of a DHL being an earned degree. Prove me wrong.

SDAminister

[Bob Pickle]

Gregory, was Leona's wearing a t-shirt that said “A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle” meant to be a joke, or was she serious about that? SDAminister took it to mean that Leona is part of the "rabid feminist camp," and I confess, it came across to me the same way. Did she just mean it to be a joke, and not part of her personal philosophy?

It is a fact that God saw that man needed some help, and so He made the woman for the man. As one preacher said in a list he gave, men lose things and women find things. "Where are the keys, dear?" "On the end of your nose, dear." There's a lot of truth in that.

But I would think it a rather strange conclusion if the assistance God intended us to give each other was only one way, and that women don't need any help at all.

[Gregory]

I have no problem with pennames in this forum.  It is your right.  I understand.  I have posted under pennames in forums.  However when one claims to send an open letter, that is expected to have a true name.  My focus was on the fact that you claim to send an open letter and are unwilling to let the world know who your are.

Continue to post here under a penname and I will never challenge you for your posting here.

As to the DHL:  The answer to your questions is easily available on the Internet.  I have a basic assumption that you are skilled enough to find the answer to your questions in less than 60 seconds.  It is there.  [O.K. a bit longera if you do not have broadband access to the Internet.]

[Gregory]

Bob, as to a t-shirt:  I have no idea.  I know nothing about it.  She had a sense of humor.  If I were to speculate, I would go in that direction.  But, I am not going to speculate on an issue that I know nothing about.  Speculation is often wrong and gets people in trouble.

I had a Hebrew class from her.  We were aware in a very limited way about some of the struggles she had had at a time when she was not paid the sam as males.  But, she never focused on that.  She never in any class I attended went off on a feminist agenda.  She was very kind to me.

I guess one could ask her. That is where questions of such should be directed--to the person directly involved.

Many years ago, I ran in a race where I was given a t-shirt that had the name and logo of a well known beer.  Prior to the race, I had professionaly imprinted on the t-shirt, above the name and logo:  "Real men don't drink."  It turned some heads, yes I wore it during the race, but no one asked me what I intended.

[Dedication]

People can be so cruel.
   

[SDAminister]

Gregory,
Funny story about the beer t-shirt. I'll have to remember that!

[SDAminister]

I have no problem with pennames in this forum.  It is your right.  I understand.  I have posted under pennames in forums.  However when one claims to send an open letter, that is expected to have a true name.  My focus was on the fact that you claim to send an open letter and are unwilling to let the world know who your are.

Continue to post here under a penname and I will never challenge you for your posting here.

As to the DHL:  The answer to your questions is easily available on the Internet.  I have a basic assumption that you are skilled enough to find the answer to your questions in less than 60 seconds.  It is there.  [O.K. a bit longera if you do not have broadband access to the Internet.]

I spent some time but could not find the info I asked you about sister Running's DHL degree. Would you please post the info since you are able to find it in less than a minute? Thanks.

[Dedication]

A   D.H.L. is an honorary degree.  It cannot be achieved by taking academic classes,  instead it must be gained though significant contributions to society.  It is granted when the recipient has contributed significantly to society or to his field.

[Murcielago]

When chihuahuas nip at the heels of giants, it may make the chihuahuas feel big, but it neither makes the chihuahuas big, or the giants small.

[Gregory]

A   D.H.L. is an honorary degree.  It cannot be achieved by taking academic classes,  instead it must be gained though significant contributions to society.  It is granted when the recipient has contributed significantly to society or to his field.

100% false.

It is not an honary degree.  It is an earned degree.

It is not obtained by making significant contributions to society or a fileld of study.

It is granted after extensive academic work and a thesis by an accredlited institution of higher learning that is approved to grant doctoral degrees.

[SDAminister]

Gregory,
Did you receive permission from Adventist Forum (Spectrum Magazine) to republish here the entire article titled "Open Letter to Ted Wilson From Your Hebrew Teacher"?

SDAminister

[SDAminister]

A   D.H.L. is an honorary degree.  It cannot be achieved by taking academic classes,  instead it must be gained though significant contributions to society.  It is granted when the recipient has contributed significantly to society or to his field.

100% false.

It is not an honary degree.  It is an earned degree.

It is not obtained by making significant contributions to society or a fileld of study.

It is granted after extensive academic work and a thesis by an accredlited institution of higher learning that is approved to grant doctoral degrees.

Gregory,
It appears that you were very, very mistaken.

"Honorary Degrees Awarded
During Commencement services on Sunday, May 6, two individuals were honored with honorary doctorates: Leona Running and Ismael Castillo Osuna.

Leona Running, professor of Biblical languages, emeritus, received an honorary Doctor of Humane Letters for her commitment to the spiritual and educational development of her students, her outstanding global contributions to the Adventist Church and its message, and her groundbreaking influence on the involvement of women in academia and the ministry. ..."
http://www.andrews.edu/news/2012/05/graduation_2012.html

SDAminister