Advent Talk

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to Advent Talk, a place for members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church! 

Feel free to invite your friends to come here.

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: RH Feb. 23, 1892 on 1 Cor. 14  (Read 4786 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Bob Pickle

  • Defendants
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4061
    • Pickle Publishing
RH Feb. 23, 1892 on 1 Cor. 14
« on: August 06, 2012, 06:02:42 AM »

Uriah Smith was editor when the following unsigned article was printed.

Quote from: RH Feb. 23, 1892
152.—WOMEN SPEAKING IN MEETING. 1 COR. 14:34, 35.

Please give an exposition of 1 Cor. 14:34, 35, in the Question Chair, or refer me to one already given, and oblige. N. O.

Ans.—The question which arises at the present day, over this scripture, is, whether or not women have the privilege of taking part in the public exercises of the house of worship. Should they have this privilege, or should it be denied them? The first point to be settled in reference to this passage, is, Was this the question in Paul's day? Was this the point under discussion? If it was, then that is the question now; if it was not, then it is not the question now, so far as this scripture is concerned; and people are using it in a wrong way when they argue from it that it teaches the withholding from women of the privilege named?

But that it does not pertain to the ordinary exercises of public worship is evident from some statements the apostle has elsewhere made in the same epistle. Turning back to chapter 11:4, we read: "Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoreth his head." Public prayer, and public teaching or preaching, here called "prophesying," constitute the ordinary exercises of public worship, or at least, do so to-day; and in this verse we have directions from the apostle, showing how men should engage in these exercises. But Paul goes right on and gives the same directions concerning women; thus (verse 5): "But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoreth her head," etc. What is the necessary conclusion from this?—It is, that, so far as the ordinary public services of the church were concerned, women were permitted to share in them equally with the men ; and if this is so, it follows that the apostle does not refer to such exercises in chapter 14:34, 35; for he would not give directions in one place how women should engage in certain exercises, and then in only the fourth chapter following, forbid their taking part in such exercises at all. Hence, though we may not be able to tell just what the apostle does mean in the scripture under notice, inasmuch as it is evident that he does not refer to those circumstances on which the question in regard to women's speaking turns to-day, this scripture is at once removed from this controversy.

There are, however, some expressions used by the apostle here and elsewhere which seem to indicate the nature of the evil against which he is here speaking. He had previously written (see Gal. 3:28) that under the gospel all sexual and national distinctions were done away, with reference to Christian promises, hopes, and privileges; that there was neither male nor female, neither Jew nor Greek, but that all were one in Christ. Considering the condition in which women were held at that time in the heathen world around them, and to a great extent, also, under the Jewish economy, this no doubt seemed to the women a wonderful liberty granted them; and some were, in all probability, inclined to carry it to the extreme of license, and so take a course which was unbecoming and unseemly; and irregularities and abuses were thus liable to grow up in the church. The latter part of 1 Cor. 14 :34, says that they (the women) are to be under obedience. This is in accordance with other injunctions, such as Eph. 5:22 ; Col. 3:18 ; Titus 2:5; 1 Pet. 3:1-6. The irregularities against which Paul warned the church, were, consequently, some actions which violated this principle of the true relationship of the woman to the man. This is further intimated in 1 Tim. 2:11, 12, where we read: "Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

Thus it appears clear that the trouble to which the apostle had reference, was some course on the part of the women by which they were putting themselves in the lead, dictating, or usurping authority over the men. But it is usurping no authority over man for a woman to pray in the public congregation, or to do what Paul, in 1 Cor. 14:3, says he means by "prophesying;" namely, speaking to edification, exhortation, and comfort.
Logged

Johann

  • Guest
Re: RH Feb. 23, 1892 on 1 Cor. 14
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2012, 09:15:16 AM »

Uriah Smith was editor when the following unsigned article was printed.

Quote from: RH Feb. 23, 1892
152.—WOMEN SPEAKING IN MEETING. 1 COR. 14:34, 35.

Please give an exposition of 1 Cor. 14:34, 35, in the Question Chair, or refer me to one already given, and oblige. N. O.

Ans.—The question which arises at the present day, over this scripture, is, whether or not women have the privilege of taking part in the public exercises of the house of worship. Should they have this privilege, or should it be denied them? The first point to be settled in reference to this passage, is, Was this the question in Paul's day? Was this the point under discussion? If it was, then that is the question now; if it was not, then it is not the question now, so far as this scripture is concerned; and people are using it in a wrong way when they argue from it that it teaches the withholding from women of the privilege named?

But that it does not pertain to the ordinary exercises of public worship is evident from some statements the apostle has elsewhere made in the same epistle. Turning back to chapter 11:4, we read: "Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoreth his head." Public prayer, and public teaching or preaching, here called "prophesying," constitute the ordinary exercises of public worship, or at least, do so to-day; and in this verse we have directions from the apostle, showing how men should engage in these exercises. But Paul goes right on and gives the same directions concerning women; thus (verse 5): "But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoreth her head," etc. What is the necessary conclusion from this?—It is, that, so far as the ordinary public services of the church were concerned, women were permitted to share in them equally with the men ; and if this is so, it follows that the apostle does not refer to such exercises in chapter 14:34, 35; for he would not give directions in one place how women should engage in certain exercises, and then in only the fourth chapter following, forbid their taking part in such exercises at all. Hence, though we may not be able to tell just what the apostle does mean in the scripture under notice, inasmuch as it is evident that he does not refer to those circumstances on which the question in regard to women's speaking turns to-day, this scripture is at once removed from this controversy.

There are, however, some expressions used by the apostle here and elsewhere which seem to indicate the nature of the evil against which he is here speaking. He had previously written (see Gal. 3:28) that under the gospel all sexual and national distinctions were done away, with reference to Christian promises, hopes, and privileges; that there was neither male nor female, neither Jew nor Greek, but that all were one in Christ. Considering the condition in which women were held at that time in the heathen world around them, and to a great extent, also, under the Jewish economy, this no doubt seemed to the women a wonderful liberty granted them; and some were, in all probability, inclined to carry it to the extreme of license, and so take a course which was unbecoming and unseemly; and irregularities and abuses were thus liable to grow up in the church. The latter part of 1 Cor. 14 :34, says that they (the women) are to be under obedience. This is in accordance with other injunctions, such as Eph. 5:22 ; Col. 3:18 ; Titus 2:5; 1 Pet. 3:1-6. The irregularities against which Paul warned the church, were, consequently, some actions which violated this principle of the true relationship of the woman to the man. This is further intimated in 1 Tim. 2:11, 12, where we read: "Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

Thus it appears clear that the trouble to which the apostle had reference, was some course on the part of the women by which they were putting themselves in the lead, dictating, or usurping authority over the men. But it is usurping no authority over man for a woman to pray in the public congregation, or to do what Paul, in 1 Cor. 14:3, says he means by "prophesying;" namely, speaking to edification, exhortation, and comfort.

1. We do not know for certain who the author is.

2. Regardless of who it is, he appears to only suggest what could be the answer to the question. The way is still open for other possibilities. Stating that someone who suggests a different meaning of the the text is in rebellion, seems itself to be a rebellion, and closes the possibilities of further discussion

3. It the author is Uriah Smith, I recall reading years ago  where EGW supports Uriah Smith as the best editor we had in spite of the fact that his theology was not fully in agreement with hers. This prevents me from making his statements an authority, even if much of what he writes might be helpful in winning souls for Christ.

4. When this article was written the SDA church was still in the beginning stage of formulating their own doctrines. Even in 1874 when J. N. Andrews went to Europe as the first foreign missionary of SDA he would only proclaim the distinctive SDA doctrines (Second Coming, Judgment, Sabbath, etc) to people who were already Christian and subscribed to the basic Christian doctrines. It was not until much later that SDA started bringing Christianity to the heathen. They stated officially that converting the heathen was the responsibility of other mission societies, and that SDAs responsibility was to bring the distinctive SDA doctrines to those who were already converted. This is one reason why some of the so called historic Adventism stands on a questionable base.
Logged

Artiste

  • Global Moderator
  • Veteran Member
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 3036
Re: RH Feb. 23, 1892 on 1 Cor. 14
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2012, 09:20:24 AM »

Quote
Thus it appears clear that the trouble to which the apostle had reference, was some course on the part of the women by which they were putting themselves in the lead, dictating, or usurping authority over the men. But it is usurping no authority over man for a woman to pray in the public congregation, or to do what Paul, in 1 Cor. 14:3, says he means by "prophesying;" namely, speaking to edification, exhortation, and comfort.

Very good summation here!
Logged
"Si me olvido de ti, oh Jerusalén, pierda mi diestra su destreza."

Johann

  • Guest
Re: RH Feb. 23, 1892 on 1 Cor. 14
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2012, 11:23:17 AM »

Quote
Thus it appears clear that the trouble to which the apostle had reference, was some course on the part of the women by which they were putting themselves in the lead, dictating, or usurping authority over the men. But it is usurping no authority over man for a woman to pray in the public congregation, or to do what Paul, in 1 Cor. 14:3, says he means by "prophesying;" namely, speaking to edification, exhortation, and comfort.

Very good summation here!


By what authority?
Logged

Bob Pickle

  • Defendants
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4061
    • Pickle Publishing
Re: RH Feb. 23, 1892 on 1 Cor. 14
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2012, 07:20:35 PM »

2. Regardless of who it is, he appears to only suggest what could be the answer to the question. The way is still open for other possibilities. Stating that someone who suggests a different meaning of the the text is in rebellion, seems itself to be a rebellion, and closes the possibilities of further discussion

Johann, are you really trying to contribute to the discussion here? The above comment certainly doesn't come across to me as if you are really trying. When has anyone ever suggested that someone who suggests a different interpretation is in rebellion? I certainly haven't.

The rebellion is where unions are voting to do something contrary to two GC Session votes, without any clear mandate from inspiration, when the GC hasn't even completed their study of the theology of ordination, which study was launched at the request of a church leader from the Columbia Union!

At any rate, I am posting these various articles to make it clear what our pioneers' position on this topic and these verses was. WO proponents have falsely claimed that the 1881 GC Session voted to ordain women. These articles show what our pioneers really thought, both before and after 1881.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up