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[Gailon Arthur Joy]

If the following is true from another topic here....
  not be sued for libel ...but I seem to recall hearing (or reading??) somewhere (maybe BSDA?) that Stan Jensen was already cooperating with the lawsuit and had turned over his Club Adventist access logs to DS/3ABN attorneys.  IF that is true.....wouldn't that explain why he says "we are not going to be [served]?"

I would hope at the least that Daryl would confirm for posters here that he has in fact willingly turned over private information to 3ABN. It is not meant as a critisim if he does, it could be very costly to fight. However I think members do deserve to know that it doesn't take much for their personal information to be demanded and possibly legally received.

Mine has always been out there for the taking, and if in fact Stan has already furnished the info, nothing of mine will read any differently. There are others that may not feel as I do and really deserve to know if this is what is taking place.

How much information against those that have agitated the powers that be on other forums been willingly and easily passed to those that may ask, or is it just DS that deserves to be handed this info.


If you look at the posts by childoftheking,myself and a couple of others and realize how easily that prompts putting those names on a subpoena list, I feel for others.

You all may want to consider what forums you post at and how secure your information really is, if you are not among the elite and favored of any forum

Be patient. Rule 45 allows them to do a third party subpoena. Remember that Blue Host has rented the space and the renter has rented the domains. If Blue Host breaches your confidentiality and then 3ABN uses that information, you are a class and you will have breach of confidentiality, violations of first amendment rights and you have have an excellent abuse of process claim, et al. Most of anything they can do is fairly limited and can be dealt with as a class action for injunctive relief at the right moment. Remember, that a cease and desist letter is enough to form a foundation for a class action for injunctive relief. And a Foundation will support your efforts against these corporate bullies. You must hold the line against these tyrants of infamy!!!

There are a host of non-profits that will defend your first amendment rights and invoke a class for injunctive rlief. You can decide if you want to pursue a class for damages as well or pursue individual claims. There is no question you have a federal jurisdiction and federal claims. So, let them abuse the process, and then strike when you have a real issue that can inflict serious and long term damage that they will remember for a couple of decades.

Let them go to their graves remembering what it cost these corporate tyrants to defend Danny Lee Shelton and Tommy Ray Shelton!!! against the wicked allegations against them. What it cost to defend open sin in the camp of modern israel. And what it cost the "work of the annointed one", the work of The King to defend unrighteous behavior. Make certain it can be said that never have so few, chased so many, so far, for nothing!!!.

Then, there is the political fall-out church-wide, if they are so foolish as to push the issue. And remember, for every dime you spend, it will likely cost them ten dollars. With the help of a non-profit or two, you can expand that ratio to 10,000 to 1 very easilly. And I would propose that the foundation will easilly raise the money to defend your First Amendment rights, much of it right out of the very same pews 3ABN depends upon!!!

There would most likely be other claims that you could pursue as well. That would depend upon the strategic purpose of the class action and just how far you wish to push. For some, an injunction would be enough, for others, they just may have donations and costs to recover. The question is, just how far will these tyrants of due process go to try and crush your first amendment rights?

As far as you let them!!! Just like Nazi Germany, it will end when the allies stand, fight and push to regain the loses!!!

At some point, you must draw a line in the sand, and if they cross it, bite like a western diamond-back!!!

YOU MUST NEVER VOID OR ALLOW THEM TO TROD ON YOUR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS. IT WILL EMBOLDEN THEM and the terrorism will spread. STAND AND FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS!!! Push them back into Thompsonville and allow them to wither away there into virtual irrelevance. Any Board, or its delegated authority, that will not take "time" to meet the complainants and listen to the issues, view the evidence and respond to them, honestly, fairly, openly and transparently, has no good reason to exist within the Seventh-day Adventist denomination. A lack of openness and transparency is a contradiction of Christian Leadership and should be swept aside.

So, show your back-bone, now!!!; Stand your ground FOR THE KING and prepare to "fire when you see the whites of their eyes!!!". And make every ounce of effort really count!!

You will look back with satisfaction and a real sense of acheivement in the Glory of the Lord.

If litigation is what they live by, then let them die by it!!!

And remember, be certain that the Lord is with YOU and the cause is righteousness...
and His righteousness will prevail!!!

But, YOU MUST NEVER SURRENDER!!!! Rather, march to victory, shoulder to shoulder as Gideons against an unrighteous foe!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
Defendant, Pro Se
And thankful to bear the privilege!!!

[Snoopy]

Artiste is back!!!

WOOHOO!!

I've been missin you!!

[Daryl Fawcett]

It seems that what has happened here has prompted a topic over at Club Adventist:

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/161050#Post161050

[Artiste]

Interesting take on what is appropriate and what is not over at Club Adventist.

Not sure I agree with them...

[Artiste]

Artiste is back!!!

WOOHOO!!

I've been missin you!!

Been missing y'all too!

[Artiste]

Posted on BlackSDA today by Appletree:

"Everyone at AT is hashing and rehashing the subpeona and what it means and how it affects them.....if those same people would quit spreading rumors and heresay on the net, there wouldn't be anything to discuss. Who knows? If they are willing to make retractions and admit that they have no first hand knowledge or proof of any of their accusations against Danny and 3ABN, maybe, 3abn would be willing to acknowledge those statements by not pursuing the charges."

How about it?

How many are willing to make retractions?

(Three guesses as to my response--first two don't count.)

[bonnie]

Posted on BlackSDA today by Appletree:

"Everyone at AT is hashing and rehashing the subpeona and what it means and how it affects them.....if those same people would quit spreading rumors and heresay on the net, there wouldn't be anything to discuss. Who knows? If they are willing to make retractions and admit that they have no first hand knowledge or proof of any of their accusations against Danny and 3ABN, maybe, 3abn would be willing to acknowledge those statements by not pursuing the charges."

How about it?

How many are willing to make retractions?



(Three guesses as to my response--first two don't count.)

Pursuing what charges? For myself, all I know is that DS would like my ip address and other info. Still haven't quite figured out why. I think for myself it would be interesting to see if possible  a subpoena to find out the identity of appletree and why he is allowed to make unproven accusations against others. From this statement those mentioned in the subpoena are being accused of making unfounded accusations against DS. I would like to see proof of my unfounded false statements against DS, then I would like to see this godly man approach me on my false statement and follow Matt 18 prior to thinking to use legal force.

3abn would be willing to acknowledge those statements by not pursuing the charges." [/i] [/b]

Maybe it is just me, but isn't this backward from a christian leader. First approach each of us for what they consider unfounded and false, ask us to retract and then if all else fails proceed against those that have lied. Of course with that, understanding that there are those that should be allowed to proceed against DS for implying or stating those he named have not been honest.

[inga]

It seems that what has happened here has prompted a topic over at Club Adventist:

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/161050#Post161050

For the record (because I don't know whether my post will stay there), this is what I just posted at ClubAdventist in the thread Daryl referenced:

Darlene had posted this:

The key is to always only say things that Jesus would say.

Yes, Darlene, thank you for that suggestion.

We should not call obvious hypocrites (those who preach one thing on worldwide television and practice quite another thing) anything worse than "vipers" or "white-washed sepulchers." (At the moment I can't actually think of anything worse.)

But I doubt that would prevent anyone from being sued for "slander" of someone found what was said to be somewhat uncomfortable.

Too often we forget that Jesus is not just about warm fuzzies, but He stands for genuine love -- the kind of love that stands up for the oppressed, for instance. He said that it would be better for one that hurts "one of these little ones" if a millstone were hung about his neck so that he would drown in the lake. I don't recall anyone suggesting anything quite as drastic on a certain Adventist forum in reference to someone whom a number of formerly "little ones" have accused of hurtful behavior against them.

Jesus had stern things to say about those in positions of authority who abused their power and authority. It is not using Scripture wisely to use it to excuse abusers of power and authority today.

By definition, slander consists of untrue accusations. Today, a suit of slander has become an intimidation technique used by the rich on those of little means when evidence of wrong-doing has been presented. A law suit makes people think that the objects of the suit have said slanderous things. But this is not necessarily so. Even when no slander has been committed, it is possible to use expensive lawyers to bring the victims to bankruptcy before such a case ever gets to court where the charge can be proven false. That's why it is used as a tool of intimidation by the unscrupulous.

It's risky to come to the aid of modern wounded Samaritans. It puts one at risk for getting sued for slander.

If Jesus walked this earth today, I wonder what He would say about those who choose to look the other way when abuses occur because they'd rather not get involved or because the person is powerful and popular or a friend. Would He not put them into a story, along with the priest and the Levite who "walked by on the other side."

Jesus said, "Come unto me" to everyone-- even the hypocritical Pharisees. And on the forum that has aroused someone's ire, that someone has been called to "come to Jesus" to have Him take care of the sin problem, instead of covering it up.

I am one of the 14 named in that subpoena, and the post that was specifically referenced as an example of my posting was the following (identifying information removed):

The discussion centered about why people lie, and Abraham had been referenced.

I replied:

"It was clearly lack of faith for Abraham. He trusted his own ability to take care of himself more than he trusted God.

"The same would be true for X. He trusted/trusts his own ability to take care of himself (with the help of deep-pocketed friends) more than he trusted/trusts God. In the case of x [publicly documented behavior] and using lies to justify it, the answer is still the same. He trusted his own ability to provide for his happiness more than he trusted/trusts God.

"God forgives sin, which always ultimately originates with a lack of faith. However, continuing in a path of sin eventually silences the voice of the Holy Spirit so that right seems wrong and wrong seems right. Jesus indicated that this sin (the sin against the Holy Spirit that results in attributing to Satan the work of the Spirit & vice versa) is the one sin that God cannot forgive.

"X needs our prayers, as do those who support him when they know he is wrong."
~~~~~~~~~
I suppose I should thank whichever member of that board fed the attorneys the information and gave this post as an example of my posting.

I stand by it, because it is the truth. I pray that you and I may take this truth into our hearts, so we may realize the importance of responding to the promptings of the Holy Spirit and being transparent in all our dealings.
_________________________
"Worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of water." Rev. 14:7

[Artiste]

Quote, Inga:

"Jesus had stern things to say about those in positions of authority who abused their power and authority. It is not using Scripture wisely to use it to excuse abusers of power and authority today."

Very important point, Inga!

[inga]

The address of the lawyer and law firm is in the PDF file, but I thought it might be good to have it for reference on this forum:

Jerrie M. Hayes, Esq.
Siegle, Brill, Greupner, Duffy & Foster, P.A.
100 Washington Ave. So. Ste. 1300
Minneapolis, MN 55401

Phone: (612) 337-6142

Since the subpoena and the lawsuit should be of interest to anyone who is concerned about preserving freedom of speech in the democracies of the world, it should be of interest to all members of this forum, and most of those who surf through.

So if you're at all interested in privacy and/or freedom of speech, I would encourage you to contact the law firm to let them know exactly what you think of this move to ask a hosting company to release private information about those who use its services. And while you're at it, tell them what you think about the defamation suit against Gailon Joy and Bob Pickle for their whistle-blowing efforts in recording the evidence at www.save-3abn.com.

If you don't get it all said the first time, it wouldn't hurt to call again. And maybe again ... Those who are not named in the subpoena have absolutely nothing to lose. And it seems that most who are named have nothing to lose either. (At least that's my opinion.)

I wonder whether the time required to answer these phone calls would be billable hours to Danny Shelton et al?

[bonnie]

Anytime taking up with my sons case were billable hours. Information that was provided and had to be confirmed/checked out/dealt with was billed to my son

[bonnie]

Is there any reason why all conferences can't be notified of the actions of 3ABN, with full detail of this subpoena?? Tehy all have websites and provide e-maill addresses. How about the various chruches that have websites with e-mail  listed. Any reason not to

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Posted on BlackSDA today by Appletree:

"Everyone at AT is hashing and rehashing the subpeona and what it means and how it affects them.....if those same people would quit spreading rumors and heresay on the net, there wouldn't be anything to discuss. Who knows? If they are willing to make retractions and admit that they have no first hand knowledge or proof of any of their accusations against Danny and 3ABN, maybe, 3abn would be willing to acknowledge those statements by not pursuing the charges."

How about it?

How many are willing to make retractions?

(Three guesses as to my response--first two don't count.)

Yes, Appletree, it is all about brute intimidation and tyrannical misuse of process.
WE ARE NOT AFRAID and will now stand shoulder to shoulder to defend the rights of victims and to oppose every open and obvious sin.

Why don't you just roll out that evidence you claim to have for nearly four years and lets see if we have anything to retract!!! It is most likely we will have much more to CROW ABOUT!!! And I cannot wait to cross examine your pathetic statements on the stand in front of fourteen jurors!!! Will you accept a trial Subpoena and take your opportunity to testify and defend tyrrany???

Looking for an answer, APPLETREE!!! Put your money where your mouth is and take a courageous stand for your version of the truth!!! I am waiting for you to take a real stand and be open and transparent...and we'll just see what your conference president has to say!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

[bonnie]

Some interesting information has been posted on C/A by Bruce Nelson(cyberguy) that may be of use to some

Bruce nelson said......I noticed that Many people are rushing to put in Hotmail Email accounts who are on the list. This will do no good. The forum registers the Email you registered with as well as the Email you are using. Plus the IPs you use. People should have registered with a hotmail.com Email to begin with and used a handle and then used some service that hides their IP address like Torpark.com which uses a modified Firefox to link through servers thoughout the world to hide ones ID. This will make it almost impossible to trace.


Interesting that the word Many is captilized. I, for one could not tell you who, besides myself have changed to a hotmail account.  I changed mine because of the nutcases that can crawl out of the wood work and have the ability to hide their identity to contact with less than desirable e-mails. Has happened to many times in the past and have little patience any longer trying to deal with that.
In anticipation of such conduct again I changed mine. Not because of DS or 3ABN. They already had mine I am sure, and as have said nothing to indicate I am in possession of secrets or know of any alleged wrong doing, I really don't care. It is those holding the coats and circling the wagons I wish to avoid.
Why would anyone take the time to keep track as to what many have listed for e-mail contact and then to know Many have changed their contact info.
Those that are so incensed over what they consider gossip seem to be keeping very close tabs on the gossip they pretend to abhore. "Oh, Thank You God I am not like they are" comes to mind.

[bonnie]

Can someone explain please. If you declare something gossip and slander,feel what is being said is morally/legally wrong?? why would you get your own hands dirty by obtaining as much information as you can.

If any topic is wrong here, what are you doing here keeping such close tabs?? Why pontificate all over the place about those terrible gossips. Why participate in the shadows of something you believe to be wrong. That is what is being done by all those afraid to register and voice their disapproval, but know exactly who may or may not have changed to hotmail account.

If such close tabs are kept on your previous e-mail accounts, perhaps they have also been copied for future use. Maybe you may want to follow advice for future given by those that know how to hide their e-mail identity.