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Author Topic: Prayer for Blue Mountain Television Sharathon  (Read 37858 times)

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Johann

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Re: Prayer for Blue Mountain Television Sharathon
« Reply #60 on: October 26, 2008, 08:00:13 AM »

I suppose it would not dawn on some minds that "chess" could be used as a metaphor - or metaphore - just like saying "that man is a fox". It is also interesting that in the early days of Adventism a picture of a man playing chess with Satan was used as an illustration in Bible Readings.
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bonnie

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Re: Prayer for Blue Mountain Television Sharathon
« Reply #61 on: October 26, 2008, 08:02:23 AM »


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But Gailon, your fellow investigator joining you in the call to remove sin from the 3abn camp, plays and promotes the playing of chess... even while stressing the importance of following the truth in the EGW writings.  He has referred to his chess playing many times and has invited some of those he spars with to play it with him someday.

Is it acceptable for one to call for the removal of the sins of others while still openly admitting to playing a game that the EGW quotes say "Heaven condemns"?   From the passages I have read, it doesn't look like chess is an okay sin, because she says "the Lord rebuked the management" of the Sanitarium (before Dr. Kellogg came) because people "who came there to board and room brought in chess playing and many other amusements."  She also described the effects such games have on the mind.

"These amusements open the door for great evil. Their tendencies are not beneficial, but their influence upon the mind is to excite and produce in some minds a passion for those plays which lead to gambling, and dissolute lives. All such plays should be condemned by Christians.  {RH, October 8, 1867 par. 29}"

We had a very large extended family. Many sabbath afternoons we would all congregate at one place. There could be up to 20 kids besides adults.
Before sundown we had worship and many times we  sang to guitar music.  

Then folowing worship we spent the evening playing flinch or rook. The younger children that did not play those would play checkers. We were also bold enough to have our typical sabbath evening snack. Popcorn by the dishpan full with lemonade.

There isn't one that has sick fancies,perverted appetites, lives in an imaginary world,or gambles. There are however many nurses,a couple of Dr's,missionaries,church school teachers .


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their influence upon the mind is to excite and produce in some minds a passion for those plays which lead to gambling, and dissolute lives. All such plays should be condemned by Christians.  {RH, October 8, 1867 par. 29}"

I can't think of one that became excited and had a passion such as said here.


Let's deprive our young people to the point of little or nothing that is enjoyable and then wonder why maybe our children end up have children out of wedlock.
Make is so restricted that almost everything becomes a sin,even reading Black Beauty and you will have sin with your young people that you never envisioned
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bonnie

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Re: Prayer for Blue Mountain Television Sharathon
« Reply #62 on: October 26, 2008, 08:15:31 AM »

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I suppose it would not dawn on some minds that "chess" could be used as a metaphor - or metaphore - just like saying "that man is a fox". It is also interesting that in the early days of Adventism a picture of a man playing chess with Satan was used as an illustration in Bible Readings.

No I don't believe that it is.It sates chess specifically. I can recall seeing many pictures depicting satan as a beautiful serpent, and tempting Eve to eat what appears to be an apple.  I still eat apples
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Johann

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Re: Prayer for Blue Mountain Television Sharathon
« Reply #63 on: October 26, 2008, 09:37:16 AM »

I was not prying into your static beliefs, bonnie. I was referring to how Bob could be using the term "chess", but since you have made up your mind how his mind is working, you might not see it that way. Neither miight you comprehend how Bob explained this in an earlier post. Humans can be so different. . .
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bonnie

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Re: Prayer for Blue Mountain Television Sharathon
« Reply #64 on: October 26, 2008, 09:47:26 AM »

Quote
]
I was not prying into your static beliefs, bonnie. I was referring to how Bob could be using the term "chess", but since you have made up your mind how his mind is working, you might not see it that way. Neither miight you comprehend how Bob explained this in an earlier post. Humans can be so different. . .

You may be right. If so I would owe Bob an apology. From here I think it would be up to Bob to answer.

Bob
1 Do you play chess,if not why not?

2. Do you believe the reading of good fiction, (I am not talking about wandering of into porn),but books like Tom Sawyer,Black Beauty etc . lead to sick fancies and living life in an imaginary world.


PS. Bob,I wanted to ask before you took the time to respond   


Do you believe EGW in her writings has stated that the actual game known as  chess should not be played?

edited to add PS
« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 10:03:08 AM by bonnie »
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Daryl Fawcett

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Re: Prayer for Blue Mountain Television Sharathon
« Reply #65 on: October 26, 2008, 03:17:51 PM »

If you are going to focus on whether playing chess, checkers, cards is OK or not OK, I suggest you take this to a new thread for the reason that it is completely off topic in this thread.

Gailon Arthur Joy

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Re: Prayer for Blue Mountain Television Sharathon
« Reply #66 on: October 30, 2008, 05:38:30 AM »

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Now, why don't you take your incidious little detraction game and "ponder" it for a while. When you get done, let's play chess some day!!! You would have a better chance at winning that game, Grandma.

Gailon Arthur Joy


Play Chess!!!!!!! EW soundly denounces that game if I remember right. How would you know how to play the game

Wow, you are correct Bonnie!  It seems EGW was pretty specific about the game of chess:



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Such mental exercise as playing cards, chess, and checkers, excites and wearies the brain and hinders recovery: while light and pleasant physical labor will occupy the time, improve the circulation, relieve and restore the brain, and prove a decided benefit to the health. But take from the invalid all such employment, and he becomes restless, and, with a diseased imagination, views his case as much worse than it really is, which tends to imbecility. {PH145 49.2}

"I was shown that it is not essential to our salvation, nor for the glory of God, for us to keep the mind laboring, even upon religious themes, constantly and excessively. There are amusements which we cannot approve, because Heaven condemns them,--such as dancing, card-playing, chess, checkers, &c. These amusements open the door for great evil. Their tendencies are not beneficial, but their influence upon the mind is to excite and produce in some minds a passion for those plays which lead to gambling, and dissolute lives. All such plays should be condemned by Christians. Something should be substituted in the place of these amusements. Something can be invented, perfectly harmless. {RH, October 8, 1867 par. 29}

   "I was shown that the position of Dr. Jackson in regard to amusements was wrong, and that his views of physical exercise were not all correct. The very amusements he recommends hinder the recovery of health in many cases, where one is helped by them. And physical labor for the sick, is to a great degree condemned by Dr. Jackson, which proves in many cases the greatest injury, while such mental exercise as playing at cards, chess, and checkers, excites and wearies the brain, and hinders recovery. Light and pleasant physical labor will occupy the time, improve the circulation, relieve and restore the brain, and prove a decided benefit to the health. But take from the invalid all such employment, and he becomes restless, and, with a diseased imagination, views his case as much worse than it really is, which tends to imbecility. {RH, October 8, 1867 par. 35}

  Recreation is needful to those who are engaged in physical labor, and is still more essential for those whose labor is principally mental. It is not essential to our salvation, nor for the glory of God, to keep the mind laboring constantly and excessively, even upon religious themes. There are amusements, such as dancing, card-playing, chess, checkers, etc., which we cannot approve, because Heaven condemns them. These amusements open the door for great evil. They are not beneficial in their tendency, but have an exciting influence, producing in some minds a passion for those plays which lead to gambling and dissipation. All such plays should be condemned by Christians, and something perfectly harmless should be substituted in their place. {MYP 392.1}

I was shown that the position of Dr. E in regard to amusements was wrong, and that his views of physical exercise were not all correct. The amusements which he recommends hinder the recovery of health in many cases to one that is helped by them. He has to a great degree condemned physical labor for the sick, and his teaching in many cases has proved a great injury to them. Such mental exercise as playing cards, chess, and checkers excites and wearies the brain and hinders recovery, while light and pleasant physical labor will occupy the time, improve the circulation, relieve and restore the brain, and prove a decided benefit to the health. But take from the invalid all such employment, and he becomes restless, and, with a diseased imagination, views his case as much worse than it really is, which tends to imbecility. {1T 554.3}

It began in the Sanitarium before Dr. Kellogg came into the institution. Persons who came there to board and room brought in chess playing and many other amusements. This was not right, and the Lord rebuked the management. Our Sanitariums are not to cater to the perverted tastes of worldly people. The same evils have existed in the Sanitarium on the hillside. A few years ago the managers made it more of a hotel than an institution for healing the sick. In the rooms of the guests could be seen the wine bottles that they had brought with them. The boarders indulged appetite for many harmful things. God was not at all pleased with the course pursued by the management in allowing such indulgence; for His purpose in the establishment of the institution was not being carried out. He sent light in regard to it, and the result was that some in leading positions withdrew. They said, "If we refuse to serve meat, we cannot hold the patrons." But whether patronage increases or decreases, right principles must be upheld in the Lord's institutions. In all our work we are to show the advantage of a health reform diet. Between us and the world there is to be a distinct line of demarcation. {KC 143.5}


Passage after passage...  The message is quite clear.  She even goes so far as to say that "Heaven condemns" it.

Gailon, were you aware of the EGW position on chess when you played it as a child?  How about when you tossed out the invitation for us to play chess some day?  Do you believe it is a sinful game since she said so?  Do you have a chess set in your home?  I have one or two.  My grandkids have lost a piece from one of them.  Have you taught your grandkids to play yet?

In fact I was a chess champion... and quite proud of the title...and this at the very same time I had Congressman Philbin write a recommendation letter to the US Military Academy at West Point. Unfortunately, I failed my physical, (unacceptable eyesite at the time, without glasses) and ended my dream of a military career. My nickname was "general" and I lived and dreamed of leading armies in battle. Even was part of a team that would play out scenarios with Avalon Hill type game boards that would go on for weeks in "the Tower Room". My hero's were McArthur, Eisenhower, Patton, Bradley and host of others. My specialty was integrated large force engagement in a conventional setting (Army Corp, Army Group and theatre commands). When that dream went bust I left it behind, reluctantly at first, but then I met that terrific lady that would become my wife and never looked back.

I believe somewhere in storage I do still have my Chess Champion Set and Board (if my wife didn't dump it at some point.). I have not played since I have been married and have not taught either my children or grandchildren how to play.

Now, for the more important question, did I know Mrs White gave specific counsel on Chess at the time I was playing? Yes, I did. Did I ignore that counsel, yes I did!! Would she have approved of West point? EXTREMELY UNLIKELY as the Point is not tolerant of conscientious objectors. At the time, war and its death and destruction were lost in the glamour of shoulder bars and stars, battle ribbons and the need to out-think your opponent. I believe I was pretty good at strategic thinking and implementation in controlled settings. And I had nerves of steel that worked well for me in an ER for five years.

Years later those same talents would work well for me as we developed trial strategy and did case management. Mental agility while part of a trial team is critical as the case unfolds and each puts forth their direct, cross and then rebuttal witnesses. In summary, the advocates play the supreme game of "toying" with the jury in an effort to gain the upper hand or to handicap the opposition. There is a right way and a wrong way with each jury. The right way leads to the glory of winning and the almighty award or judgement (and a happy client), the wrong way
leads to the depression and nausea of defeat and an unhappy client.

Fortunately, my wife was quite helpful in getting me beyond those stages and settling into a "normal life" however that is best defined. The 'general" is long faded and the chess skills quite rusty, I am sure. Since then, I have come to believe unreservedly in the Spirit of Prophecy and the great messages and lifestyle that is gifted to the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

Is that a sufficient answer for the dis-ingenuous inquisitions of GrandmaNettie?

Gailon Arthur Joy

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bonnie

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Re: Prayer for Blue Mountain Television Sharathon
« Reply #67 on: October 30, 2008, 05:53:22 AM »

Quote

In fact I was a chess champion... and quite proud of the title...and this at the very same time I had Congressman Philbin write a recommendation letter to the US Military Academy at West Point. Unfortunately, I failed my physical, (unacceptable eyesite at the time, without glasses) and ended my dream of a military career. My nickname was "general" and I lived and dreamed of leading armies in battle. Even was part of a team that would play out scenarios with Avalon Hill type game boards that would go on for weeks in "the Tower Room". My hero's were McArthur, Eisenhower, Patton, Bradley and host of others. My specialty was integrated large force engagement in a conventional setting (Army Corp, Army Group and theatre commands). When that dream went bust I left it behind, reluctantly at first, but then I met that terrific lady that would become my wife and never looked back.

Daryl has undoubtedly approved this to be back on topic

Explains much ......... My nickname was "general" and I lived and dreamed of leading armies in battle. Even was part of a team that would play out scenarios with Avalon Hill type game boards that would go on for weeks in "the Tower Room". My hero's were McArthur, Eisenhower, Patton, Bradley and host of others.



Quote
I believe I was pretty good at strategic thinking and implementation in controlled settings. And I had nerves of steel that worked well for me in an ER for five years.

Who would have guessed. Your personal recommendation of Gailon is enlightening


 
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Is that a sufficient answer for the dis-ingenuous inquisitions of GrandmaNettie?

Gailon Arthur Joy

Isn't the word inquisition a bit strong for asking questions of Gailon and Bob,or are we to conclude they cannot be askedf
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Daryl Fawcett

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Re: Prayer for Blue Mountain Television Sharathon
« Reply #68 on: October 30, 2008, 05:09:09 PM »

I seem to remember seeing a new and separate topic created for the discussion of chess, therefore, I hope to soon find the time to move these off topic posts there.

guide4him

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Re: Prayer for Blue Mountain Television Sharathon
« Reply #69 on: October 30, 2008, 06:27:00 PM »

Thank you Daryl.
 :dogwag:
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Gailon Arthur Joy

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Re: Prayer for Blue Mountain Television Sharathon
« Reply #70 on: October 30, 2008, 09:01:29 PM »

Thank you Daryl.
 :dogwag:

Sorry, Just answering Questions...er, inquisitions!!!


GAJ
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Chrissie

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Re: Prayer for Blue Mountain Television Sharathon
« Reply #71 on: October 31, 2008, 08:16:22 PM »

If this is true - and I have absolutely no way of knowing whether it is or is not, except that I find Johann's information to be accurate - how despicable, so many years
after the event.  Even if Linda had done what she was accused of doing, (and I have not seen any proof of that) surely a person should be permitted to get her life back on track.

I'm in 'catchup mode', but these kind of activities by those who would attempt to stop Linda at any cost, just appear more and more despicable. Do they not have 'a life' or are they so consumed by hatred that they will do whatever they possibly can to destroy Linda.

Have they not heard that Jesus is coming again soon, and they need to be about their Father's business, just as Linda is doing?

Smacks of demonic activity by those involved in trying to stop her, as far as I'm concerned.
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Chrissie

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Re: Prayer for Blue Mountain Television Sharathon
« Reply #72 on: October 31, 2008, 08:38:54 PM »

I received this report from Walla Walla:

"Johann,
 
"We watched Linda & Dan Mathews last evening on the local Blue Mountain Television Sharathon, both did excellent.  Linda looked so nice, appreciated her comments very much.  She is such a special person, good to see Linda involved." 

xxxx
Wonderful news Johann. So pelased for Linda and her Ministry.
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